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CONLANG  October 1998, Week 3

CONLANG October 1998, Week 3

Subject:

GROUPLANG : POLL2 (Re: cases, modifiers, pronouns)

From:

"Mathias M. Lassailly" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:54:25 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

From the last poll we could draw the conclusion that the majority of us would like :

- prefixed cases.

- suffixed genders or classifiers.

- postpositions and/or supensive predicate.

Further discussions apparently show that a majority would like :

- 'case+argument + predicate' order.

- both noun- and verb-rooted predicates.

1. The following cases have been most suggested :

1.1. Cases used with verb-rooted predicates :

- ergative = transitive nominative ERG=TNOM  : erg-me to-be-red = I redden (him); erg-me to-rise = I raise; erg-me bite = I bite.

- absolutive = undergoer = intransitive nominative ABS=UND=INOM : abs-me to-rise = I rise; abs-me to-be-red = I am/become red.

Nota : this is not a genuine absolutive which should be passive as in Basque as in :
abs-me to-be-cut = I'm cut => erg-me abs-it to-be-cut = I cut it.

- patientive = accusative PAT=ACC : pat-me to-bite = I'm bitten.

- causative CAUS : caus-me erg-he red = I have him redden (something); caus-me erg-he fall = I have him fell; erg-me food = I apply food = I feed (someone).

- dative DAT : dat-me to-give = I'm given (a gift).

1.1. Cases used with noun-rooted predicates :

- agentive AGE : age-me stream = I stream; age-me club = I beat; age-me gift = I'm given (as a gift); age-me image = I'm seen.

- ergative ERG : erg-me red = I apply red on him; erg-me fall = I apply fall on him = I make him fall; erg-me hammer = I apply hammer = I hammer (with a tool).

- patientive PAT : pat-me red = I'm applied red colour; pat-me club = I'm clubbed; pat-me eye = I'm looked at.

- absolutive ABS : abs-me eye = abs-image = I see; abs-seat = I sit; abs-me fruit : I bear fruit; abs-me rise = I rise; abs-me gift = I'm given (a gift).

- attributive ATT : att-me home = I live in (a cave); att-me brother = I've a brother; att-me ears = I've ears; att-me smoke = I (release) smoke; etc.

- causative CAUS : caus-me erg-he red = I have him redden; caus-me erg-he fall = I have him fell something.

1.3. Case used with arguments :

- genitive GEN : dog gen-me / gen-me dog  = my dog

2. Suggested degrees of integration were :

- thema + rhema (topic) THEM + RHEM : them-(abs)-dog red = the dog, she's red; OR dog red = the dog, (she's) red.

- argument + predicate + ARG + PRED : erg-dog pat/acc-me bite = dog bites me.

- modifier + noun / modifier + predicate = MOD + NOUN/PRED : mod-red dog = red dog; erg-me mod-hard bite = I bite hard.

- phrase + determinant / noun + determinant = PHR/NOUN + DET : det-pat-me bite dog = the dog who bites me.

- clause + relative + sub-clause = CL + REL + SUBCL : dog erg-it pat-me bite = the dog who bites me / the dog biting me; dog abs-it red = red dog; erg-dog pat-me abs-which hard bite = dog bites me hard.

3. Suggested pronouns were :

3.1. Personal pronouns (spacial deixis - no genders discussed here) :

- 1, 2, 3, 3bis
- 1sg, 1pl, 2sg, 2pl, 3sg, 3pl
- 1incl, 1excl, 2incl, 2excl, 3
- polite-less-polite-even-less-polite
etc.

3.2. Relative/resumptive pronouns (syntactic deixis) :

latter/former/next one : dog erg-last_one pat-me bite = dog who bites me
latter/this/next fact : erg-dog abs-this_fact hard pat-me bite = dog bites me hard; arg-dog pat-me bite att-latter_fact hard = dog bites me hard.

Please make your choice and comments on items 1.1 through 3.2.

Suggested next step : postpositions/adverbal subclause; word-order in subclause; genders/classifiers; derived nouns, state/action nouns ('the one bitten', 'the maker', 'the fact of eating'); aspects, moods ('want to', 'can', 'must', etc.) tenses, negative; for verb-rooted predicates : passive, (antipassive ?).

Mathias

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