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CONLANG  October 1998, Week 3

CONLANG October 1998, Week 3

Subject:

Re: GROUPLANG: Phonetics

From:

Carlos Thompson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:02:10 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (167 lines)

De: Pablo Flores <[log in to unmask]>
Fecha: Mi=E9rcoles 14 de Octubre de 1998 19:27


>Carlos Thompson wrote:
>>
>>The phonetics, as propossed this far, is:
>>
>>basic sounds:
>>vouels: /a/, /e/, /i/, /o/, /u/, /y/
>>consonants:
>>/p/ /b/ /t/ /d/ /k/ /g/ /q/ /q_voiced/
>>/f/ /v/ /s/ /z/ /x/ /G/ /h/
>>    /m/     /n/     /N/
>>    /w/ /r/ /l/     /j/
>
>Actually, we've discussed to drop /h/, mainly because it didn't
>quite fit into the system. We could do with /x/, variants [x] and [h].

Yes, I remember.

>Dropping <h> would also allow us to use all the h-digraphs without
>problems. Not only <kh>, <gh>, <qh> (which are invalid clusters, tho)
>but also <nh> for /N/. If we keep /h/ =3D <h>, we'll have to write <ng>
>or there'll be an ambiguity.
>
>Note that <ng> for /N/ is not ambiguous; /ng/ could be written <ngg>,
>because syllable-final nasals assimilate to the next place of
>articulation.

How about an N ending root combined by a velar inleaded suffix or composi=
te
root:

lon + ka =3D> lonka ['lON.ka] or longka (explicit orthography)
lon + ge =3D> longe ['lON.ge] or longge.
but _longe_ could suggest ['loN.Ne]

With the nh diagraph, _longe_ would no need explicit orthography _lonhge_
after ng are two different sounds and asimilation wouls lead /ng/ to be
pronounced [Ng]

>>With the following orthography: all those sounds above, with lowercase
>>letters in IPA will use the IPA value, but "x": a, b, d, e, f, g, i, j,=
 k,
>>l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, y, z
>>
>>The other sounds are: /x/ as <kh> or <x>, /G/ as <gh>, /q_voiced/ as <q=
h>
or
>><qg>, /N/ as <nh> or <ng>, /h_voiced/
>
>Let's decide about <h> and then I'll tell you :-)
>
>>No values this far for <c> and <x>.
>
><c> could be /q_voiced/, but it's not very intuitive...
><x> could be /x/, but I think it's better to keep <kh> and <gh>
>(they are more "mnemonic", and symmetrical).

Maybe <c> and <x> could be only used in borrowings with no phonetical val=
ue
en grouplang or as alternative writing for /q_voiced/ and /x/

>[snip]
>>Because of the VV posibility in a syllabe, in composing (or in adding
>>affixes) there could rise V-V combinations.  The posibilities are:
>>
>>Avoid V-V combinations forcing C and F in every root.
>>Asimilate V-V as a VV diphthong (even ae, ao, oe, etc.)
>>Use something (both phonetically and orthographic to mark an hiatus, ma=
ybe
a
>>dieresis or an apostrophe)
>>insert a sound, either a glide or a glotal stop.
>>
>>I vote for a glide in root combination and asimilation fo V-V into VV f=
or
>>affixes.
>
>I vote for a glide in root combination AND for affixes.
>I don't think we should force the roots to have any special form.
>
>--Pablo Flores

I think affixes and possible roots too should have a flexible forms, and,=
 if
we stick with voice harmony, affixes and roots should not differe in voic=
ing
(at least in the places harmony will take place).

With your first proposals:
> frar-  "dog"
> kjak-  "bite, bit"
> wiv-   "red"
> s-     "I, me, first person"
> qaun-  "hard, strong"
> Case markers:
> a-   agent
> pe-  patient
> di-  predicate
> ys-  undergoer
> mu-  modifier
> Other markers:
> -o, -i  (dummy gender markers)
> -ul  past tense
> -e   present tense

and a root like an- the prefixed root would be:
  with glide:
    ajan- or awan-
    pejan-
    dijan-
    ysan-
    muwan-

  with asimilated diphthong:
    aan- [a?an] or [a:n] or [Aan] or [a&n] or what ever
    pean- [p&:n] or [pean] or ?
    dian- [djan] or [dIan]
    ysan-
    muan- [mwan] or [mUan]
(note [ea] [Aa] or [Ia] should be diphthongs, maybe not easy ones)

  with flexible prefixes
    ajan- or aran- or anan-
    pan- or pjan-
    dan- or djan-
    ysan-
    man- or mwan-

  with glottal stops:
    [a'?an], [pe'?an], [dI'?an], [y'san] and [mU'?an]

Endings fo a root like po-:
  with glides:
    powo
    powi
    powul
    powe

  with assimilated diphtong
    poo [po:] or [pOo] or ['po.?o]
    poi [pOI] or [pOj]
    poul [pOUl] or [pOwl]
    poe [pOe]

  with glotal stops
    poo ['po.?o]
    poi ['po.?I]
    poul ['po.?Ul]
    poe ['po.?e]

  with flexible suffixes:
    powo or pou /pow/ or pow
    poi /poj/ or poji ['po.i] or ['po.ji]
    poul or powl
    poje

  with flexible root: (equal /w/ glide).

As I said I vote for flexible affixes, some flexible roots, and glide for
all other V-V combinations and unstressed <y> =3D [@] for Stop-C combinat=
ions.

-- Carlos Th

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