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CONLANG  October 1998, Week 4

CONLANG October 1998, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Gender (was: LANGUAGE LAWS)

From:

"Mathias M. Lassailly" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 23 Oct 1998 05:13:06 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (92 lines)

Ray wrote :

At 6:01 am +0000 22/10/98, Mathias M. Lassailly wrote:
> >Nik wrote :
> ........
> >> Well, I don't think that these polysynthetic types *are* older than
> >> "modern" types.  Your example of "animal-cow" is essentially a
> >> gender-marker (animal gender).
> >
> >Gender means that one of the two parts is sub-ordinated in meaning, which
> >would not the case where 'animal' is the 'cow' only when associated with
> >'cow' and 'cow' is that animal only when associated with 'animal'.

This was my argument :-|


 Gender
> >classifiers are a much more 'scientific' way of ordering the world into
> >species :-)
>
> Nah - there are many languages that do categorize their nouns into several
> genders and words like 'animal' may indeed be just such a gender marker.
>

And that was a play on words :-)


> I really cannot see how, e.g. the Bantu gender markers are a more
> scientific way of ordering the world.
>
> >
> >  When such classifiers become mandatory,
> >> and spread to other words in the sentences (e.g., adjectives, verbs,
> >> pronouns), then they become genders.
> >>
> >
> >Gender is a sexual classifier.
>
> With respect, this is nonsense.

I don't ask for respect, only moderation.

  The Bantu languages have strict gender
> marking but one thing they do _not_ distinguish is sexual difference.  The
> 3rd person pronoun, e.g. has quite a few different forms for the different
> gender agreements, e.g. the words for "he/ she/ it" in Xhosa are:
>
> Gender   Sing.  plural
> No.1     yena    bona
> No.2     wona    yona
> No.3     lona    wona
> No.4     sona    zona
> No.5     yona    zona
> No.6     lona
> No.7     bona
> No.8     kona
>

So those 8 categories do not classify items in the world into big families through specific logics now forgotten ? :-)

> But nowhere is "she" differentiated from "he"!
>
> (Note the Xhosa pronouns are the emphatic, disjunctive forms.  Meanings of
> pronouns are normally conveyed by various bound morphemes)
>
> I assume we are using 'gender' with its original and proper linguistic
> meaning and not in the way it is, IMO regrettably, now so often used as a
> euphemism for 'sex'.
>
> Ray.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> but it does not distinguish between 'he' and 'she'!
>
>

I think I got it by now.

Mathias


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