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CONLANG  October 1998, Week 4

CONLANG October 1998, Week 4

Subject:

Re: LANGUAGE LAWS

From:

"Mathias M. Lassailly" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:39:10 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (43 lines)

At 3:09 pm -0700 22/10/98, charles wrote:
> .....
> >So, a holophrase can take an argument,
> >as in "allgone shoe!" or "ticket, please?" ?
> >Then it would seem like an idiomatic formula.
>
> Yep - I suppose that's about it.
>
> >Jesperson said that "originally" languages would
> >have been "holophrastic." On the auxlang list,
> >we tried to make sense of this, and failed (I think).
>

That's right. Eskimoan is holophrastic and yet not quite 'original' :-)
Maybe because Jespersn did not tell how far he thought presentative was from holophrastic structure ;-) (I'd bet he couldn't).


> If he's using holophrastic this way then he'd be saying that language began
> with the sort of unstructured utterances children use as they are beginning
> to acquire language.
>

I never read anything about that but I can tell you my little cousins went : 1. word 2. theme/rheme (usually reversed : amazing for French children !) 3. predicate/argument (or reversely) 4. verbal structure (svo for French). They're the most lovely guinea-pigs I know :-)


> On the principle that ontology encapsulates phylogeny, I guess that at some
> stage this is very likely to have happened.  The main difference between
> theorists, as I see it, is whether this proto-language development took
> place before homo sapiens sapiens or in a "pre-sapiens" period.
>
> Ray.
>
>

Yes, indeed : holophrastic structure exists only if there no predicative presentative structure. And presentative is already a structure differentiating perception (what I know/feel) and affirmation. Therefore the term 'sapiens' is very well-come here :-) Language of those who 'know' vs. language of those who don't know yet :-)

Mathias

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