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AUXLANG  November 1998, Week 2

AUXLANG November 1998, Week 2

Subject:

Re: What IAL to learn?

From:

emerson alcott <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:24:10 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (131 lines)

Robert Petry epenom:
 
 
>In actual fact, most people like none of the above. However, with some good
>reclame that could change. As far as the 2,000,000 figure, that's very
>interesting. It is the same inflated figure used in the 1920's, 1930' and=
 on up
>until today. You,d think that would change over the decades.
 
Errr!!  Incorrect, you do not proceed to Double Jeopardy!!  The numbers used
in the 1940s, etc. are about 116,000, so :-P~  Again, I refer to "The Green
Star".  In the 1920s/1930s, the figure was around 100,000.  No where have I
ever read that the number of Esperanto speakers in the 20s/30s/40s was
anywhere near 2,000,000 (tho I wish they were).  So your 'inflated figure'
theory is hogwash.
 
 
> And, never has this
>number been proven to be real.
 
I believe that this number was from some kind of book like the "Guinness
Book of World Records' or something, tho I can't remember the name.
 
 
> The real number based on membership lists of
>actual associations, clubs, etc. might get up to 20-120,000 and that's it.
 
Really?  Ok, let's take your highly reduced number of 120,000 and use it in
my deductioning.  We still have 120,000 who support Esperanto compared with
@ 2,000 that support any other.  (And that number is a _combined_ amount of
those who support _any other_ IAL!!)
 
 
>Anything above that is puff and exaggeration.
 
Wrong again.
 
 
>Many times the numbers offered over
>the years have been compared with the numbers each group claims are members=
 or
>subscribers, and they never come out to 2,000,000 anyway you figure it.
And, this
>is the standard number one argument of the four standards used to make it=
 look
>better than it is.
 
Do you honestly think that _every_ Esperantist _must_ suscribe to one or
more magazines? Poppycock!  I have a good friend whom I taught Esperanto to
and she has no ties whatsoever with any Esperanto association (tho I'd like
her to; she's just not interested in the IAL movement in general).  How many
more are just like her?
        As for making Esperanto look better than it is, I think it's pretty
good the way it is and the numbers only help to assert the fact that most
IALers agree with me.
 
 
> That is, "we have more speakers than you do," as if that
>proves anything. It means not much in actuallity.
 
It means a whole hell of a lot!  Would you buy cookies from a company that
_no one else_ bought from?  You'd think "Gee, I don't think I should buy
these cookies: no one else is, maybe there's something wrong with them.  I
think I'll buy the ones everyone else is buying.  Why would they buy them if
they weren't good?"  The same goes for IALs: a large user base indicates a
general satisfaction and preference over another IAL.
 
 
> And, because
>someone buys a book does not mean anything either. I have 5 books in front
of me
>in this particular language, as many people do. Plus I bought one years=
 ago,
>which makes 6. I have read none of them more than the first chapter, or to=
 look
>up a word if someone posts a single word or so on the list. Yet, would=
 those 6
>books be counted as 6 people who are now fluent speakers of this language?
 
I have no idea what you're talking about here: I never mentioned any books.
Perhaps you're thinking of someone else's comment?
 
 
>So, as has been done often in the past, but always refused, or redirected,=
 or
>ignored, here is another question. Where are these 2,000,000? And, how many
total
>subscribers are there to the magazines? And, how many verifiable members in=
 the
>various associations?
 
See my previous paragraph.
 
 
 Let's have some facts, and not just statements without
>proof. Give us something to check on. If there are say 20,000 subscribers=
 and
>members in the world, why aren't the other 1,980,000 involved in=
 subscriptions,
>etc? And, of those subscribers, how many really are fluent in the language
beyond
>being able to say, I know this language?
 
I know Volap=FCk, but that doesn't mean I suscribe to any Volap=FCkist=
 journal
or magazine.  By your logic, if I favor something, such as a political
party, I must suscribe to their magazine/organization.  That's just plain
ludicrous.
 
>After that, then maybe we can discuss the other three standard arguments of=
 the
>four that are attempts to prove only this one language is the successful=
 one.
 
Can you name any other successful IALs?  (And don't tell me 'Occidental',
because that was taken out with the trash 50 years ago.)
 
_________________________________________________________
 
Emerson Alcott
[log in to unmask]
http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/6701
 
 
 
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
 
*   Ne estu sola en la mondo, Lernu Esperanton!     *
 
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

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