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CONLANG  November 1998, Week 3

CONLANG November 1998, Week 3

Subject:

Re: New Language

From:

Garrett <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:30:29 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (137 lines)

Didier Willis wrote:

> Garrett wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone, I am creating a new language called Malat. It is
> > intended to be the most logical language ever created.
>
> That's a rather presomptuous aim, don't you think? I have always
> wondered what people meant by *logical* languages (are there any
> *illogical* languages, by the way?), and as a matter of facts,
> many so-called logical langs often show lots of illogicalities,
> whereas artlangs are sometimes paradoxically much more regular
> and logical...

Well, I aim to make the language as "Garrett-logical" that I can make it
(where everything is regular and relates in a logical way). Could you
tell me some examples of those so-called logical languages, and the
artlangs with more regular/logical structures? I'd like to see their
ideas on the subject.

> > This will be the first time that anyone else but me (and my family)
> > has seen the language. Currently I only have a short grammar
> > description and a pre/postfix list up. Check it out at
> >         http://www.metro.net/3jones/malat/
> > I'd greatly appreciate any comments or ideas that you have.
>
> You states:
>
>    "The basic concept of Malat, which is completely original, is
>    that of Cause and Effect: every action causes another action,
>    which causes another action, and so on."
>
> I'll have to see a complex example of this feature to appreaciate
> it, though I do no see the intended originality.

Well, it's prolly not "completely original", but the idea of it was
thought up by me and I don't know of any other languages that work this
way. I am writing up a new version of the cause and effect section that
explains cause and effect more.

> In the grammar,
> you give the following example:
>
>    "The cause and effect philosophy can also be used for concepts
>    like the reason and the purpose of an action:
>
>       oL gusrt uaL *connector word here* aL kik ioL
>          = Because he didn't like me, I kicked him.
>
>    literally: He doesn't like me, *so*, I kick him."
>
> You mean that the connector word is implicit in Malat? ("so" is
> supposed to be absent?).

Well actually, the basic connector idea that's implicit is direct
causation. The rest of the relationships will require connector words
that I have not created yet. In the one above, there would be a connector
word in the place of "so".

> The 'absolute genitive' participial clauses
> in ancient greek function a bit like this (they imply a causality
> relationship: "Having been kicked, Socrate falled").
>
>    "Another unique concept is that most modifiers can be used
>    on both verbs, nouns, and adjectives. Because of the structure
>    of Malat, many unique concepts can be made by using simple
>    construction rules."
>
> Regarding uniqueness, I am afraid that many conlangs (and even
> natlangs) work this way. Nova (Brad Coon's conlang) has a strong
> oligosynthetic structure and has therefore reached a particular
> status on this topic.

Do those languages use most of their modifiers interchangably between
nouns/verbs/adjectives? I don't know much about the particular conlangs
that there are, and I didn't really know if others used that concept... I
guess I was being a little too optimistic (about malat's uniqueness).

>   "Only 6 vowels are used in Malat: a, e, i, o, u, and r. They are
>    pronounced "ahh", "ehh", "eee", "ohh", "ooo", and "err" (like in
>    dot, set, meet, note, root, and her). The 'e' has a slight ey
>    sound (like in the word 'hey'), but the sound shouldn't be carried
>    off to the 'ee' sound like many speakers do (like 'hey-ee'). The
>    vowels are always pronounced the same way everywhere."
>
> The last sentence underlies that there is no allophones, but
> is contradicted by the previous discussion of /e/ and also
> by the examples:
>
>   "English --> spelled 'ingLec' + 'e' --> ingLece
>    (pron. een-gleshey)"
>
> So /e/ is rendered as [Ej] at the end of this word, but as [E]
> in the middle. That's a kind of allophone, isn't it?

Well actually you would pronounce both e's the same way, I put the 'y' at
the end to remind people of the slight 'ay' sound the 'e' has...

>   "gusoc = will like"
>
> How do you pronounce this word, [gusoc] or [gusOc]? (where [0]
> is the reverse-c IPA character). Personally I would tend
> toward [O].

Are you asking about pronunciation or stress here? I haven't really
decided on stress yet, but I'm tending toward the last syllable of a
word.

> Though I am not a native english speaker, I am also puzzled by
> your /a/ ("ahh" vs. "dot"? It doesn't seem to be the same sound).
>
> Perhaps you should consider using a more precise phonetic
> transcription. I am also pretty sure that you'll have to
> allow some allophones when the language will be more
> developed. It's difficult to get rid of them...

I pronounce the vowel in all of these words the same:- dot
- caught
- father (first syllable)
- wrong
- tall

I guess it would be the highest occuring one in the above. What is the
symbol for that sound?

> Regards.
>
> Didier
> -- -

--
-Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

-Garrett Jones aka Alkaline
Rising Sun - C&C2: Tiberian Sun - http://www.cnc2.com/
Malat - http://www.metro.net/3jones/malat/

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