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AUXLANG  November 1998, Week 4

AUXLANG November 1998, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Ia/Occ conflict

From:

Don HARLOW <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:51:25 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (70 lines)

Responde al Charles:
 
> Donald J. HARLOW wrote:
> >
> > Je 03:59 atm 11/24/98 +0000, charles skribis:
>
> > >Basing an IAL on roots with complex consonant clusters
> > >is a loser, since most people cannot pronounce it.
> > >
> > Define "loser", please. And compared to what?
>
> OK, it's a bad idea that will never be adopted by
> the world at large, meaning not in the next 100 years
> will there be even a billion speakers. It might reach
> 10 million or 37.5 million, which is great, but still.
> I feel very safe in this wild-assed-guess.
>
As far as IALs are concerned, I don't think the figures you quote
define a "loser". Incidentally, my own WAG would be somewhat higher,
though probably not by an order of magnitude.
 
> > >Man can't fly but his machines do. Now machines
> > >are capable of parsing language. Nobody really
> > >has to fly, and nobody needs a computer, today,
> > >but that's where things are headed.
> > >
> > It is a happy fact that human beings, when they create technology, adjust
> > it to fit _their_ preferences; they don't adjust themselves to fit _its_
> > preferences. People won't change their linguistic habits to make it easier
> > to communicate with machines; they'll change the machines so that they can
> > communicate more easily with people.
>
> Actually, the telephone and tv have changed human
> communication greatly. So did writing, and printing.
> Out tools do change us, and our environment. And the
> biggest changes are coming in the next few years.
>
Writing and printing modified the temporal _scope_ of human
communication, and the telephone and TV have modified its _spacial_
scope, but none of these seems to have had a lot of effect on the
qualitative aspects of human communication. (Re your last sentence:
you've been reading Vernor Vinge's novels, hey?)
 
> > You will see machines using
> > complicated, kludgy programs that can understand, for instance, Chinese,
> > long before you will find people going to the effort of learning to speak
> > in "C".
>
> C is far, far easier than any human language.
> So are all existing computer langs I know.
> But they are too limited.
>
> I imagine human language being re-invented and even
> re-engineered, to become perhaps more mathematical
> and machine-tractable. Actually, it was Zamenhof
> who first showed the way (invented a complete and
> usable language superior to natlangs). But to stop
> progress now would be impossible.
>
Again, Esperanto is _quantitatively_ superior to natlangs, but not
_qualitatively_ so -- in fact, for all functional intents and
purposes, it _is_ a natlang. Ditto almost every other planned
language discussed here. Again, people will _not_ use a language
re-engineered to be more machine-tractable _if_ such a language
becomes less human-tractable. We remain the ones in charge here.
 
--Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/
(English version: http://www.webcom.com/~donh/dona.html)

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