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AUXLANG  November 1998, Week 4

AUXLANG November 1998, Week 4

Subject:

Personal/political preferences (was Re: Un altere exemplo del defamation del effortios de IALA)

From:

Michael Farris <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:10:04 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (83 lines)

Donald J. HARLOW wrote:
 
> Occidental chopped -- because of the author's personal  and political
> preferences -- at least one language group represented in Esperanto. I'm
> not sure it's good form for an Occidentalist to pick on Interlingua for
> merely continuing the trend.
 
Let's talk about this. I read your page on Occi and felt you are a bit hasty in
dismissing DeWahl as a Western-Chauvinist cum racist. That is my take on what
you wrote, and from what others have written I'm not alone. If that's not the
message you intend to give, you should probably take another look and think
about re-editing and making yourself a bit clearer.
 
True, DeWahl omitted slavic elements from Occi. Is this proof of his
anti-slavic bias? I don't think so. If I were creating an IAL I probably
wouldn't include many slavic elements either. I hope you don't think I'm
harboring any anit-slavic bias.
 
The simple truth is that if you're taking Europe as your starting point, the
words with the biggest international bang for the buck are from (in order, very
roughly)
 
Romance - (more French and Italian than Spanish and Latin, also this vocabulary
has much more varied origins than the simple tag 'Romance' might lead you to
believe, but if you include the Americas, Spanish goes way up, Portuguese still
doesn't have much international oomph, a pity since I'm very fond of Brazilian
Portuguese - for my money the prettiest language on the planet)
English
German
Greek (Ancient, not modern, and maybe should be above German)
 
 
Like it or not (and I don't especially) that's what "international" in a
European context. If you go to other parts of the world, the major
international word stock comes from
 
NB When I say 'international' I mean that a word is dispersed from it's
language of origin into others. Words that stay put don't qualify, no matter
how many speakers.
 
If you look outside of Europe you get -
 
Arabic - On a par with Latin in scope and geographical distribution, Languages
from Swahili, Turkish, Farsi, Hindustani, Indonesian among others have
substantial layers of Arabic borrowings (also found to a large degree in Europe
but usually disguised as something else).
 
Sanscrit - Mainly non-Islamic parts of Indian Subcontinent, Southest Asia and
Indonesia (maybe TIbet, I'm not sure).
 
Chinese - Mainly written Southeastern and Eastern Asia, and due to complicated
historic factors, the pronunciation of these words varies widely from language
to langauge 'letter' (of the alphabet) is zi, ji, or ja in Mandarin, Japanese
and Korean respectively and the pronunciation is further apart than that, the
Mandarin is a syllabic 'z' with no discernible vowel.
 
Slavic - Limited influence in Central Europe, Central Asia (alhtough many of
the Russian borrowings in Central Asian languages are actually Russified
international words. Mongolia (same deal).
Big swatch of territory but definitely second tier in international currency.
 
Turkic - Same deal as slavic, The turkic languages cover an impressive swatch
of ground but haven't dispersed much vocabulary into other languages that I
know of.
 
 
Summing up, DeWahl chose the vocabulary that he felt had the widest dispersion,
Slavic languges have not dispersed much vocabulary into many languages.
Having said that, a lot of the stuff that Bob posts indicates that he wasn't
doing another Volapuk/Zamenhoff, creating the whole language and then expecting
people to use it as is, but was fairly open to innovations in the vocabulary,
no matter the source.
 
Zamenhof used a lot of the basic European international vocabulary and spiced
it a bit with a little Slavic. This does not make him a global visionary,
especially since Eists are not especially keen on borrowing words, at least not
as far as I've noticed. I don't think the Slavic stock of Eo is bigger now than
in Zhoff's day, whereas the Slavic stock (or any ohter stock) has potential to
grow in Occidental.
 
AMikel,
mikeFarris

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