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AUXLANG  November 1998, Week 4

AUXLANG November 1998, Week 4

Subject:

Re: On Promotion of the IAL Ideal

From:

Michael Farris <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:29:27 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

Paul O Bartlett wrote:
 
>     It seems to have been claimed, more or less, in this forum that
> adherents of the (constructed) international auxiliary language idea
> should promote not just this or that conIAL but the IAL ideal in
> general, on the theory that a rising tide lifts all boats.  However, I
> have come speculatively to the notion that this generalized promotion
> of an ideal will not accomplish much.
>
>     Suppose that I am a stereotypical monoglot anglophone American with
> little or no awareness of or appreciation for "the language problem."
> Now you come to me and promote the IAL deal.
>
>     "Great," I reply, "I am convinced.  Now teach me your fabulous
> auxiliary language."
>     "Well," you respond, "I am not in the business of teaching you
> any IAL; I am just t (editarooni)
>     "Well, you see, there are all these IALs out there.  I am not
> advocating any particular one of them."
>
> We go back and forth like this, you espousing a cloudy ideal and I,
> being convinced on theoretical grounds, wanting to do something specific
> about it.  If sooner or later you do not evidence willingness to teach
> me some specific language, I am likely to conclude that you are an
> impractical dreamer (or that IALists in general are cranks) and go my
> way, muttering under my breath about addle-pated idealists.
 
I think you might be referring to statements I've made (makes me feel
ssooooo good to think someone's payin' attention) and I think I see where
you maybe misunderstood me (Dr. Idonatzionale, to the rescue).
 
Okay, I think that a) Yes, we should be out there promoting our IAL's of
choice. b) If you're promoting Interlingua then don't dump on Esperanto, if
you're promoting Occidental then don't dump on Ia, if you're promoting Glosa
then don't dump on Ido, If you're promoting (well I think you get the idea)
If you're promoting Esperanto, you're much less likely to have people asking
about other IAL's, but the same principal applies.
 
If you're promoting Ia and you read a story in the newspaper about Eo, don't
write angry letters to the editor asking how they can promote such an
abomination.
 
In other words, promote your IAL of choice, and if someone asks you about
another one, called, let's say, Kosmoranto, say "Ah yes Kosmoranto, I know
very litle about it myself, but I know some people in Norway and Greece are
using it."  Don't "Oh, awful, that verb derivation infix pattern is just all
wrong, and they changed all the LAtin 'qu's into 'f's!!!! Can you believe
it????"
 
 
Many, maybe most, people when they realize they've stumbled on something
that people have been acrimoniously arguing about for decades on end, have a
strong desire to run the other way as quickly as possible. I suggest we
don't pander to this entirely laudable human survival trait.
 
Are you listening Jay-Bob-Don-James?
 
I speak from personal experience here as I've come close to quitting this
list in disgust more than once. People that enjoy arguing for the sake of
arguing are few and far between and tend to drive folks away faster than a
leak of Methane gas.
 
>     I tend to hold that the time comes, when taking the ideal to the
> public, that an IAList must advocate some specific language -- Suma,
> Glosa, Ro, Interlingua, Oz, Ido, Esperanto, Occidental, XYZ, whatever
> -- if she or he is to be taken seriously.
 
Yes, advocate what you believe in but don't dump on others. Let's put it
this way, many US universities advertise language courses, can you imagine
what would happen if you started seeing flyers "Learn French! Spanish is for
donkeys!" or "Learn Italian, after all German is pretty awful!"
 
Pretend all IAL's are natural languages and you don't want to be sued for
being politically incorrect.
 
>     At best we, individually, must hold our nose and pick one, warts
> and all, and go with it, advocating it, whether it meets our personal
> standards or not.  In the end, if any (con)IAL is ever widely adopted,
> it will probably not be on linguistic grounds, the result of a coterie
> of linguists (or amateur pseudo-linguists) sitting in a smoke-filled
> back room dreaming up some allegedly "perfect" language.
>
>     It is because I retracted a decision one time made and do not
> presently advocate a single language that I am not a -public- advocate
> of the IAL ideal.  Hence I restrict myself to online fora where the
> debates are fun, even if they don't accomplish much.
 
Debates can be fun, mud-slinging and arrogant posturing are something else
again.
 
I also don't advocate a single language, I sort of advocate two but I'm not
doing much about promoting either one.
 
1) Esperanto - Tremendous potential, but too much like a religion. Knowing
what I know about linguistics and language and communication, I just can't
take much of the Esperantist agenda very seriously. When I hear or read "The
accusative is necessary because you can't have free word order without it"
or "We can't do anything about the accents because it wouldn't be 100 %
fonetic like it is now!" or other musty pearls from the vaultkeeper's crypt
of linguistic myths I feel like an astronomer asked to join a cult that has
documented proof that we live inside the Earth and the sun is a rotating
light in the middle and the stars are lights from cities on the other side
of the planet. (I grew up sort of near a small religious group that believed
something of the kind). I advocate an agressive-pro-active relationship to
the basic elements to the grammar instead of the passive-conformist approach
that reigns in Esperantujo.
 
2) Lingue - I disagree with a lot of Bob's tactics, but he has a lot of the
right ideas. Put the speakers first, give them some grammar guidelines and
let them work out the details themselves. Trade on the positive aspects
(millions of folks can understand it without trying very hard) and take care
of the weak spots later.   Now if he'd find something better to talk about
than how awful other IAL's are ....
 
Amikel,
MikeFarris

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