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AUXLANG  December 1998, Week 1

AUXLANG December 1998, Week 1

Subject:

Re: philosophy, was Re: Untitled (Re: your mail)

From:

charles <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:02:42 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (81 lines)

On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Robin Turner wrote:
 
> (OK, I was agreeing wholeheartedly with Robin gaskell ten
> minutes ago, but in a different way ;-) ).
 
Me too. But sitting on a fence is uncomfortable;
best to play both sides. Or as Eno saith:
"When faced with a decision, choose both."
One of the major linguistic traps is to speak of
"the" answer, implying that there is exactly one.
 
> The idea of essences is a dubious
> hangover from Aristotle (see the "Categories" and the "Metaphysics") which has
> been soundly thrashed by linguists in general, and cognitive linguists in
> particular.
 
Everone makes fun of E-Prime, which attacks the fuzzy semantics
of the verb/copula "to be". But it is right to do so.
The whole concept of "essence" confused with "actuality"
and English "-ness" and Ido "-eso" is like ... a mess.
In my conlang experiments it appears that the noun "thing"
is really the same as the verb/copula "to be", just an
empty syntactic category marker, and from my reading
it appears to be fully "semantically bleached".
 
> The idea of "hiden metaphysics" is extremely important in IALs, I think.  When I
> first got interested in constructed languages, I assumed that the ideal language
> would be what Whorf calls "oligosynthetic", i.e. there would be a set of basic
> concepts (like Leibniz's "alphabet of human thought") represented at the lowest
> possible phonemic/morphological level, from which you could create any other
> concept - very like some of the "perfect languages" described in Eco.  However,
> this falls into the "hidden metaphysics" trap in a big way.
 
I'm playing with that idea now. As soon as one looks at the
"X is an instance of Y" and "X is a part of Y" relations,
a tree/hierarchy of noun-like concepts appears; that part
could possibly be implemented as an alphabetically sorted
dictionary, but not oligosynthetically because there are just
too many branches (= syllables) per term. WordNet example:
 
kitty, kitty-cat, puss, pussy, pussyca
  => domestic cat, house cat, Felis domesticus, Felis catus
    => cat, true cat
      => feline, felid
        => carnivore
          => placental, placental mammal, eutherian, eutherian mammal
            => mammal
              => vertebrate, craniate
                => chordate
                  => animal, animate being, beast, brute, creature, fauna
                    => life form, organism, being, living thing
                      => entity, something
 
So, to be precise, we can't say "kitty", we must say
"ralinacevemapacafecadoki". Or maybe "fang-pet" for short.
 
But there *are* (= truly exist) some favorite short syllables
"grammaticalized" from what our linguistic ancestors found
to be the most useful concepts. A quasi-oligo-etc works
just fine in the affixes of Esperanto/Ido.
 
> With an IAL we need some compromise between metaphorical flexibility and
> semantic precision.
 
There is only one way: arrest all poets and let scientists
name everything.
 
> Lojban does this with the particle "pe'a" - if I say "la
> axmet. cu cribe", I mean that Ahmet is actually a bear, whereas "pe'a la axmet.
> cu cribe" simply means that there is some sense in which he could be thought of
> as a bear, and the actual sense is up to the listener to work out from
> contextual or cultural clues.  Similarly with articles, "lo cribe" means "that
> which is really is a bear", while "le cribe" means "that which I term a bear",
> which is probably a bear, but need not be.  The problem here is that it probably
> works well for Lojbanists, who are the type of people who are interested in
> metaphorical vs. literal usage, but the system might well break down once it
> came into more general use.
 
English has "-ish", "sorta/kinda", "like", "semi-", "somewhat" ...
Lojban is right to systematize it. But watch those poets.

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