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CONLANG  December 1998, Week 2

CONLANG December 1998, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Malat

From:

Garrett <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:51:03 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (151 lines)

Hmm, this didn't get recieved the first time, here it goes again...

Garrett wrote:

> Mathias M. Lassailly wrote:
>
> > Charles wrote :
> >
> > Garrett wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been hard at work on Malat (my logical language)
> > >
> > I had a good time reading your post. I'm really interested in the matter you've been dealing with in Malat.
>
> Cool :)
>
> > > > All word roots are a consonant/consonant cluster, then an empty space, then a
> > > > consonant. For example, the word for exchange is "m-d". A vowel is put in the empty
> > > > spot to tell what type of speech the word is ('e' for verb, 'a' for noun, etc). When
> > > > an inherently verbal root is converted to a noun, the meaning is "a person/thing who
> > > > ~s" or "an ~er". For example, med = to exchange, so mad = an exchanger.
> > >
> >
> > Same for my Dead-Easy Language, except that roots are triconsonantic.
> > http://members.aol.com/lassailly/del.html
>
> *bookmarked* I will read the whole thing sometime, it looks very interesting.
>
> > Charles' Tomato sounds more *friendly* because it's plain vowel+consonant roots.
> > http://www.catty.com/~catty/lang/tomato.htm
> >
> > > I like part-of-speech marking. You seem to be using "direct derivation"
> > > as in Esperanto, where a verb becomes a noun as easily as changing
> > > socks.
> >
> > Except that Garrett apparently have made an aspect distinction inside roots : ongoing patient or agent // patient or agent as a result.
> > Problem is, Garrett : what is the resultative patient of *to cut* ? The wood carved ? The cutting ? Two twigs ? Sawdust ? :-)
>
> This is one of my favorite parts of Malat. There are two types of verbs in Malat: actions and states. The actions are just pure actions, describing what the agent does; the resulting state is not stated. So, to cut is a pure action and has no specific state. The other type is state verbs,
> which describe the resulting state of the patient. So, "to be carved", "to be split into twigs", "to be turned into sawdust", etc are state verbs. Malat is constructed so that an action verb and state verb are easily expressed in a simple sentence. For example, if 'k-t' means to cut, and
> 's-d' means "to be sawdust", 't-d' means a tree, -uc is past tense, and -ed is a modifier meaning "to change to":
>
> aL ketuc itad aseded = I cut the tree into sawdust.
>
> (i- is patient, a- is a verb that is caused by another action).
> To say the tree was cut into a board (b-d = to be a board):
>
> aL ketuc itad abeded = I cut the tree into a board.
>
> Without the resulting state expressed, it's either implied or not known what the resulting state is:
>
> aL ketuc itad = I cut the tree (into what is unknown).
>
> Also, you can leave out the action but have the state:
>
> aL itad abeded = I made the tree into a board (what i did to do that is unkown).
>
> > > > In malat sentences, there are three types of objects involved: an agent (causes the
> > > > action), a patient (who is affected by the action), and a focus (which further
> > > > elaborates on the action).
> > >
> > Same in DEL, except that there is an agent (usually the instrument) and a patient. The patient is antipassive :
> > to receive (active) // to be attributed to  (antipassive);
> > Then there is a factor :
> > to make receive (active factitive) = to give to;
> > to make be attributed (antipassive factitive) = to give (something).
> > Like in Malat, the focus/patient and the agent  may be either in process (processive) or successfully processed (resultative) :  *to be milled* = *to be being milled* (processive) or *to be flour* (resultative). The agent may also be processive (*to get big*) or resultative (*to be big*).
>
> I haven't described the following anywhere yet, but here's how the processive/resultative stuff works in Malat. Malat agent verbs (also called action verbs) are what the action is in the sentence. The ~n modifier is used on these verbs:-rn: start doing the action
> -an: be in the middle of the action
> -in (the default): to be done with the action
>
> With the state verbs, the ~d modifier is used:
> -ed: to change to the state (processive)
> -ad (the default): the be in the state (resultative)
> -ud: go back from the state (to the previous state)
> -erd: change from the state (into a new state)
>
> aL ketan ioL atederd abeded = I am cutting it from a tree into a board.
>
> > Some actions and states are transformative, some aren't (like most of the lative actions and states).
> > Sometime it's difficult to say whether the patient is *transformed* in a result :
> > *to turn to* > *to be turned to* = *to be a direction*
> > Is a direction a plain patient or a resultative patient ?
>
> For Malat the direction would be the focus of the action, the person that was turned is the patient, and the person that turns the patient is the agent. The patient of malat is transformed because of the act; the focus is unchanged (that's what the focus is).
>
> > This depends whether you take aspective into consideration. If you make a difference between *to turn to* and *to be directed to* then the patient may be processive or resultative : *to be turned to* and *to be the direction of*.
> > Same with *to give birth to* // *to be born of*.
>
> if b-th means "giving birth to", beth = to give birth to, and bieth = to be born of.if t-n means "be in the direction of to", tened = turn (self) to, tien/aten = be directed to, ten = be in the direction of.
>
> > So your focus is my patient or processed patient, your patient is my agent or patient and your agent is my factor, and reversely your patient... ;-) (kidding). But basically I can feel we solved the problem in a similar way.
> >
> > > I just downloaded Rick Morneau's latest revision to Lexical Semantics;
> > > is that where you got the focus idea?
> > >
> > Could you give me that address please ?
>
> ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/r/ram/conlang/yes, that's where I got my focus idea. I started out having my sentences constructed similarly to his, but diverged off and now malat can expressed action and state at the same time (I don't remember how Rick did it).
>
> > > > On to what I wanted to explain. I made up a system where the agent and focus or
> > > > agent and patient could be switched.
> > >
> > This looks like the antipassive voice whereby the patient takes control of the action. Tomato and DEL work like that : *to go to* (active) > *to attract* (antipassive).
>
> Malat would go like this: get (to go to) --> [patient] giet/aget (to move) (here, the giet/aget is the patient's resulting state)to attract would be something like: aL ioL aget uaL (i make him move to me).
>
> > Sally calls that *volitional*. With your *focus* system you would have :
> > *to be given* > *I have myself be given something*. Then with a positive shift you would get : *I have myself be given something* > *I take something*.
> > DEL is flawed because many verbs with 3 actors are not factitive par essence : *to sell* does not equal *to make be sold* nor *to make buy* and reversely.
> > Does it also work like that in Malat ?
>
> Well, cmed = to sell and zed = to own, so:aL cmeduc uoLas ioLes azed (i sold it to her, making her own it)
> aL ioLas acmued (i make it be sold)
>
> They don't have the same meaning i suppose, like DEL, because:
> aL ioLas acmued uoLes (i make it be sold by her [i make her sell it])
>
> an equivalent meaning to "to sell" would be:
> aL ioLas acmued uaL (i make it be sold by me)
>
> > > > What this system basically is is a passive construction system, but applied to both
> > > > verbs and nouns.
> > >
> > Maybe an antipassive system.
> >
> > > Seems workable, maybe even realistic.
> > It does work.
> >
> > You aren't tempted to add
> > > ablative, allative, illative, comitative, combative, ... ?
>
> I don't know what those mean, i'll go look them up...
>
> > >
> > >
> > Lative cases are different from essive or core cases to me.
> >
> > Mathias
> >
> > -----
> > See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/conlang/?start=18956

--
-Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

-Garrett Jones aka Alkaline
Rising Sun - C&C2: Tiberian Sun - http://www.cnc2.com/
Malat - http://www.metro.net/3jones/malat/

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December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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