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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  December 1998, Week 2

CONLANG December 1998, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Nouns, verbs, adjectives... and why they're point

From:

"Mathias M. Lassailly" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:19:25 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (56 lines)

JOSHUAH WROTE :

SNIP

> Now, if "table" were only an adjective, you wouldn't have even brought up
> this problem -- the seeming "boundary" between "table" and "desk" would
> disappear, and they might both be used to describe a given thing with no
> conflict, just as you might describe the table as both "wooden" and "black"
> without any conflict.
>
that's how I deeply feel too.

> I have yet to meet someone who could explain just what the distinction betw=
> een
> nouns, verbs, and adjectives is supposed to represent;

I feel that you answered yourself to your own question : PoS is mainly based on aspectivation, that is : on degree of integration. So if you flatten that vector you don't have any distinction anymore in PoS. in English i feel there are roughly from least to most integrated : verb, participle, subclause, adjective, compound. in japanese : verb/verb adjective, subclause, noun. In Khmer : verb/adjective, noun.
in Danove"n I reckon : word, operator. Nouns you cannot be opposed because there is no process (not *progress*) so everything is *frozen*, no reversive is implied. That's why *TABLE* cannot be opposed to *DESK*. You may oppose *BLACK* to *WHITE* but that's no reversive process, only vague  *psycho* or pseudo *scientific* or *logic* opposition. Politicians love nominal phrases :-) I also feel japanese giongo as unaspective speech :-) But it's not because aspectivation is unmarked that it does not operate. It has to. And when it's marked, the gradation is not uniform in all languages : i want to say : japanese *verb-adjective* matches english pos from verb to participle and japanese *subclause* matches english PoS from subclause to compound. Khmer is messier : verb matches from verb to compound. Danove"n : noun matches from verb to noun :-) But you still have the operators needed, see ? My tunu language works like danove"n : only verbs and operators, but still it has pos marked !
!
!
with pronouns like *the latter clause*, *the former predicate* or *the former noun*, etc, because i can feel that anyway the pos works by itself, no need to deny it.
Mathias


> To me, the PoS seem far more traditional than rational, and this is an opin=
> ion
> based not just on reasoning but also on experience; I fluently speak a lang=
> uage
> without PoS and have never felt *any* need for them -- from an "outsider's
> viewpoint", PoS distinctions are artificial, sloppy, and entirely unneccess=
> ary
> as well.  Flame at will, it's the simple, verified truth ;-)
>
> Josh Shinavier
>
yeah ! blood ! kill !
i think garrett wrote that relation between words beside PoS is not important... Come on garrett, it's your turn :-)))

Mathias

>
>         _/_/      _/_/  _/_/_/_/   Joshua Shinavier            =20
>          _/        _/  _/         Loorenstrasse 74, Zimmer B321=20
>         _/        _/  _/_/_/_/   CH-8053 Z=FCrich              =20
>  _/    _/  _/    _/        _/   Switzerland                 =20
> _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/   http://members.tripod.com/~Paradox5
>
> Danoven/Aroven: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/5555/ven.htm
>
>



-----
See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/conlang/?start=19066

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December 1998, Week 5
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