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AUXLANG  January 1999, Week 1

AUXLANG January 1999, Week 1

Subject:

Re: th, ph, rh (fwd)

From:

James Chandler <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 3 Jan 1999 15:25:27 GMT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (88 lines)

Stan Mulaik rote:
 
> Since James is so concerned about representing the German languages
> in Interlingua, it is English, French, German which influence the
> prototypic spellings, which indeed do facilitate differentiation of
> words in reading, which is a major use today of language.
 
First I want to say that for once I agree with Don Harlow, and therefore
apparently not with Stan Mulaik (or for that matter Bruce Gilson), that the
IL will not be principally a written language, in the design of which
little attention need be paid to the possibility of it being spoken.
(This is, as far as I can recall, the _only_ time I have _ever_
simultaneously agreed with Don Harlow on something and disagreed with
Bruce Gilson.  This is, as far as Auxlang debate goes, a historic moment.)
 
Secondly, as regards maximum facility, I would acknowledge that some weight
should be given to the fact that the three languages mentioned by Stan use
ph, th, rh in their spellings of the relevant words (the divergent Eng
pronunciation of th notwithstanding).  However, these spellings cannot
possibly find a place in the final mix of a language optimized for DEFISPR
speakers.  For one thing it means three more combinations in which h is
used unphonetically.  This is justifiable in the digraphs ch, sh which are
necessary for the representation of the unvoiced blade-point consonant in
the ordinary Roman alphabet.  But such unphonetic use of h is indefensible
when we have other rational means of representing the sounds.  Furthermore,
it means a doubling of the methods of writing each of the sounds [f], [t]
and [r], which is a complication for evrybody.  The only rational solution
in this case is evidently to simplify these groups into f, t, r, as is done
in ISP, and also in DEF in such commercial spellings as "foto", and
alternate spellings like "rime".
 
> Orthographic
> reformers usually are unidimensional in their thinking about the
> uses of orthography and only stress the phonetic univocality of characters
> without considering the visual impact on meaning of orthography.
 
It seems to me that spelling reformers, some of whom have been eminent
phoneticians, are not one-dimensional in their thinking - they just have
a sufficiently profound knowledge of linguistics and phonetics to realize
that theories such as this have no justification or basis in reality.
Whatever the vagaries of the written language, the spoken language goes on
being spoken, for the most part, independently of it.  Spelling homophones
differently does nothing to solve the problem in the spoken language, which
will still have to confront the problems posed by the most disturbing
homophones.  Historical spelling does not guarantee that homophones will
be spelt distinctly, as for example in the two English "right"s, which the
spoken language has had to deal with by means of the addition "-hand" in
"right-hand side".  Lastly we find there is nothing to prevent different
words with different pronunciations being spelt the same way in a
historical orthography, as in Eng "tear".
 
So we see that historical spelling has nothing whatsoever to recommend it
in national languages, and that civilization is only held up by the
proffering of obsolete psychological theories by people with an
insufficient knowledge of the matter at hand.
 
> Most
> Greek words are technical words, which children will not encounter until
> they have mastered the usual phonetic correspondences of the rest of
> the language.
 
But what about Eng "telephone, sophisticated, photograph, photocopy,
phenomenon, pharmacist, theatre, theory, thermometer, thermostat, rhyme,
rhythm"?
 
> The digraphs are univocal, and sophisticated readers and
> writers can easily handle them.
 
There's that word "sophisticated" again.  I am worried that I may not be
sophisticated enough to learn Ia...
 
> I have seen a book with a title that
> suggests there are reading problems for speakers of Spanish who use
> the phonetic orthography.
 
With all due respect, a book title is not much to go on for the purposes
of this discussion.
 
> English is blessed in being able to
> differentiate prefixes like phyllo-, phylo- and philo- in words from Greek.
 
English is cursed with a monstrous orthography which is the bane of every
learner and user of the language.  ph and rh are a part of that
monstrosity, and personally I would be happy to see them go as part of a
thorogoing reform based on pronunciation.
 
James Chandler.

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