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AUXLANG  January 1999, Week 1

AUXLANG January 1999, Week 1

Subject:

Re: prototypes and questions (fwd)

From:

James Chandler <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 1 Jan 1999 15:47:21 GMT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (80 lines)

Paul Bartlett rote:
 
>     Any IAL, if it is to be worth anything, will have to be usable by
> people who are NOT professional linguists.  In fact, I think that it
> would be highly desirable to poll non-professionals.  Professionals
> can have their blind spots, too, and because of their professional
> abilities themselves might inadvertently gloss over problems which
> non-professionals might discover.  I would say that design,
> construction, and promulgation of an international auxiliary language
> are too important to leave to professionals.
 
Paul, I think you have misunderstood slightly.  The people I am saying
should have been included in the poll are not professional linguists, but
ordinary people from all sorts of backgrounds involved in the IL movement.
S. Auerbach, for instance, member of the Ido Academy, was not a
professional linguist; or Federn of the Occ movement; or Ahlberg for the
Novialists.  But these people had a longstanding interest in the problem
and should have been consulted in any poll carried out.  But in any case,
I am not sure it really matters exactly who was polled; the whole idea of
deciding the final form of IL on the basis of an opinion poll is appalling
to anyone aware of the scientific nature of the problem and of the
scientific spirit in which it can and ought to be solved.
 
>     This I will agree with.  Somebody might design a language that
> s/he (and possibly even others) considers "objective" which turns out
> to be horrid in actual attempted use.
 
I would say that's already happened.  Gode lost sight of the problem in
hand, and set about solving the _different_ problem of registration of the
international vocabulary according to some arbitrary objective method.
First you need to identify the problem, secondly formulate the scientific
principles for solving the problem based on the nature of the problem
itself, not some loosely related one.
 
> > Therefore if there is a single overriding principle in IL design, it is
> > maximum facility;
>
>     Disagree.  Facility for some may be a serious consideration, but I
> cannot confer it "overriding principle" status.  "Maximum facility"
> seems to be a numbers game, and in a calculus of values there could be
> a _deliberate_decision_ to eschew the numbers on other grounds.
 
I don't follow this.  What is inherently wrong with a "numbers game"?  If
we want to make the language as easy as possible for as many as possible,
we are obviously going to have to look at the numbers.  I don't understand
what precisely is your objection to doing so.
 
>     Say what?  Italian may not be an overly widely spoken language
> today, but Spanish and Portuguese are hardly trivial languages in
> number of speakers.  Together they may have somewhere on the general
> order of 300 - 400 million speakers or more.  And there are a good many
> French speakers.  Something like Interlingua or Occidental would
> certainly serve as an interlanguage for the FISP group, and to some
> extent with English thrown in.  Whether it is as suitable for a
> -global- auxiliary is a slightly different question.
 
I am not interested here in whether anything is suitable as a global
auxiliary.  But I assume that most people here are interested in an IL at
least for Europe and those nations on other continents of European
civilization.  In particular, English and German need to be accorded equal
importance in the design of the language; Ido even includes Russian in the
calculation (51% of basic Ido roots are common to Russian).
 
>     They didn't.  English is one of the major source languages for
> Interlingua, and German and Russian were secondarily considered.  One
> problem is just how much more-or-less recognizable lexical material
> available on a global basis.  Leo Moser has been working on his Project
> Bahasan, but I have not heard any status updates for a long time.
 
The IED might state that English is a source language of equal status with
FISP.  But I contend that the method of retrieving prototypic forms from
the Romanic languages, going back if necessary to Latin, can only give a
language optimized for speakers of Romanic languages.  English speakers
can only benefit to the limited extent to which English has incorporated
a certain number of the same forms.  So it seems to me that English
speakers were automatically relegated to the second level as soon as the
prototypic Romanic form method was decided upon.
 
James Chandler.

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