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AUXLANG  January 1999, Week 4

AUXLANG January 1999, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Commentary on Haas' Critique of Interlingua Part II

From:

STAN MULAIK <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:59:53 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (86 lines)

>> Interlingua's treatment of English gerunds by the infinitive parallels
>> similar ways in which the old Latin gerund functions were absorbed by the
>> infinitive in the Romance languages.
>
>    Your quotations from some encyclopedia were all very interesting
>but entirely missed my point, which if nothing else did not have
>anything to do with using Interlingua's infinitive in the manner of
>English's gerund.  My point was that English has nothing corresponding
>to the prepositions 'a' or 'de' in front of a marked infinitive, so
>that there is a feature in Interlingua which is not present in one of
>its source languages, contrary to the general principle.
>
 
English "to" is a preposition corresponding to "a" used in front of an
English infinitive.  The preposition is not a mark of the infinitive.
Again I quote the relevant sentence from INFOPEDIA's discussion of
English Usage of infinitives:  " Since the 18th century there has been an
assumption that the _to_  is part of the infinitive, though that is not so."
So your statement that "English has nothing corresponding to the
prepositions 'a' or 'de" in front of a marked infinitive" may be
incorrect.
 
This is brought out more clearly in the following discussion of the
so-called "try and <infinitive>" error, excerpted from a fuller discussion
in INFOPEDIA's "English Usage":
 
"'try and': The use of _try and_ in contexts where _try to_ would be possible
has been subject to criticism since the 19th century. The issue continues to
enjoy great popularity, although a number of usage commentators, including
Fowler 1926, Evans 1957, and Follett 1966, are on record as recognizing
that _try and_ is an established standard idiom. Copperud 1980 remarks about
one complicated attempt to differentiate between _try and_ and _try to_,
"This proves nothing but the lengths to which the wrongheaded will go to
make nonexistent points." The basis for objecting to _try and_ is usually
the notion that _try_ is to be followed by the infinitive combined with the
assumption that an infinitive requires _to_. This is the same mistaken
assumption that has caused so much trouble over the so-called split
infinitive (which see). In spite of what these critics believe, however,
infinitives are used in many constructions without _to_, and some of those
constructions use _and_. The use of _and_ between two verbs where _to_ might
be expected (_to_ would seem unlikely in some of the constructions) is an old
one in English. The OED has examples back to the 16th century; the Middle
English Dictionary has examples as far back as the 13th. The verbs most
often used in this construction in past centuries were _begin, go, take,_
and _come_ the last three of which are still so used. _Try_ did not appear as
_try and_ until the 17th century, when our familiar sense of the word was
first established. Interestingly, the earliest example for the "make an
attempt" sense in the OED involves the _try and_ construction, so _try and_
may actually be older than _try to_. The oldest example of _try to_ in the
OED, in fact, is an inverted construction: To repair his Strength he tries
John Dryden, Virgil's Georgics, 1697...."
 
 
Webster's says:
 
"infinitive n (1530) : a verb form normally identical in English with the
first person singular that performs some functions of a noun and at the
same time displays some characteristics of a verb and that is used with to
(as in I asked him to go ) except with auxiliary and various other verbs
(as in no one saw him leave )"
 
"  gerund: any of several linguistic forms analogous to the Latin gerund
in languages other than Latin; esp : the English verbal noun in -ing that
has the function of a substantive and at the same time shows the verbal
features of tense, voice, and capacity to take adverbial qualifiers and to
govern objects"
 
 
English uses two forms for verbal nouns, so-called "infinitives" and
"gerunds".  Here we are talking about the grammatical function of a verbal
noun implemented with two forms, the "infinitive" (of English) and
the "gerund" (of English).  In both cases the verbal noun can be preceded
by a preposition.  English "infinitives" are used primarily with "to".
Gerunds may be preceded by many different prepositions.  But these are
formal, not functional issues.  Interlingua treats verbal nouns (the
function they serve in a grammar) with the infinitive, which can perform
the combined functions of English infinitives and English gerunds.
 
So in the case of verbal nouns English does not lack a grammatical
function that Interlingua retains.
 
But they certainly have different forms for performing these functions.
 
 
Stan Mulaik

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