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CONLANG  March 1999, Week 2

CONLANG March 1999, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Neo-Anglic

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:56:39 GMT+0

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

Tim Smith [quotes from a series of posts]:
> This whole project started as a compromise.  On the one hand, I
> wanted to develop a language that would be highly synthetic, with
> very flexible word order, and yet plausibly descended from English.
> (This desire was inspired partly by the discussion of Galach in the
> Dune Encyclopedia.)  The obvious way to do this was to assume that
> left-dislocation of topic NPs and right-dislocation of other NPs,
> leaving resumptive pronouns behind in the verb complex, become
> mandatory, and that the verb complex becomes increasingly synthetic
> as subject and object pronouns and auxiliary verbs become fused to
> each other and to the verb stem as agreement markers and as
> tense/mood/aspect markers, respectively.  This could result in
> something that looks a lot like modern colloquial French, or like
> many Native American languages.  But a straightforward projection
> along these lines from contemporary standard English involves
> tremendous complexities and irregularities, which I found very
> daunting.  So I tried to eliminate many of these complexities and
> irregularities at the outset by using a (hypothetical generic)
> creole rather than standard English as my starting point.  Now I'm
> not so sure that this was the best way to go.  (For one thing, I
> don't really know a great deal about creoles, so I'm not a good
> judge of what's plausible and what's not, whereas modern standard
> English is my native language.)  I'm sort of thinking that I'd like
> to go back to square one and redo the whole project starting from
> standard English.  But that would really be a different project, and
> a very difficult one.  And I already have more conlang projects than
> I can handle (probably more than I could handle even if I didn't
> also have to deal with the "real world").
>
> Questions or comments are welcome, as always, whether about
> Neo-Anglic itself or about these comments.

As I mentioned in a couple of posts, I have been working on a British
version of the non-creole version of Neo-Anglic. (I'll refer to it as
"Breersh", because if you say that in a contemporary English English
accent it sounds like it does in Breersh. [bRe:S], roughly.)

In my case I have the phonology very thoroughly worked out, and am
moving on to clause structure, dealing with similar issues and ideas
to you. I have been assuming that the phonology pretty much runs its
own course without external influence, and the phonological changes,
plus the inherent momentum of the evolution of the grammar will lead
the grammar to evolve in certain directions, but I also assume that
in the area of syntax influence from America might influence Breersh
syntax, both inhibiting and exacerbating certain changes, and also
being a source of innovation. In lexis it would be even more a source
of innovation, but I've not got to this yet. I have therefore of late
been looking around to see whether anyone has an American counterpart
of Breersh, in order for me to assess the likely nature of its
influences on Breersh.

> I definitely need to think some more about sound changes.  The strategy
> I've followed so far has been to keep the sound changes pretty
> conservative, avoiding anything that isn't already attested in real-world
> creoles and/or "non-standard" varieties of English, but to make the
> orthography very different, so that to a non-linguist it would look quite
> "foreign" on paper but would be fairly intelligible when spoken.  (Hence
> your comment that it's not strange enough.)  But I think I had in mind all
> along that this was just the beginning, and that once I had the grammar
> down I'd start introducing more sound changes.

First, I think that might be slightly backwards. Sound changes
generally proceed impervious to grammar, but not vice versa, since
sound change can erode old grammatically-significant contrasts and even
introduce new ones.

Second, I imagine you can get a long way just be extrapolating from
the current situation, provided you have an idea of the social
history (i.e. the diachronic sociolinguistics) of Neo-Anglic. (I'm
talking about the noncreole version here.) For example, is Neo-Anglic
rhotic? Acrolectal AmE currently is, in the main, [cf. famous studies
by Labov] while basilectal AAVE isn't: which is going to win?

> The thorniest problem, I think, is what to do about gender.  I've long
> thought that "they" is well on the way to becoming a gender-neutral singular
> pronoun, as well as a plural one.  (As several people on this list have
> pointed out at various times, this is not a "PC" innovation, but rather a
> revival of what used to be standard usage until the prescriptive grammarians
> decided that it wasn't "logical".)  But if this happens, will "they"
> supplant "he" and "she", as "you" supplanted "thou", or will "he" and "she"
> remain in contexts where the gender of the referent is known and relevant?
> Either way, there will probably be a perceived need for an unambiguously
> plural third-person pronoun, and something like "th'all" (analogous to
> "y'all") will emerge to fill this need.  And probably "it" will remain as an
> inanimate singular pronoun.  Any way you look at it, the pronominal
> agreement paradigms will be a lot more complicated than what I've described.

Breersh has been through this issue. Ignoring the not-yet-known
influences from "Maircan" (/RmEkn/, American), I think it has
currently evolved to a stage where /xe^m/ (^ = breve), /x@/ and
/dE^m/ (him, her, them) have their contemporary values, except that
/dE^m/ can be used for singular human even when the sex is known.
"He", "she" and "they" have reflexes in Breersh as (let us say, to
please John Cowan) finite pronominal clitics. Each is compatible with
a full NP or pronominal subject, but there are certain cooccurence
restrictions prohibiting:

    /xe^m/ + reflex of "she"
    /x@/ + reflex of "he"
    /dE^m/ + reflex of "she" or "he"

/ji/ and /dE^m/ (you, them) also have singular and plural
counterparts:

    SG         PL
    /jyn/      /j'ilO/   [' = unpredictable stress]
    /dE^myn/   /dE^mlO/

> Using a creole as a starting point eliminated all this; since NO creoles,
> AFAIK, have grammatical gender, I could just take it as given that this was
> not an issue.

HIm vs HER, though, is not really grammatical gender. It's just two
pronouns semantically differentiated by the sex of the referent.

--And.

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