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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  March 1999, Week 2

CONLANG March 1999, Week 2

Subject:

Ax the wops (was: Genitive relationships (WAS: Construct States))

From:

"Raymond A. Brown" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:09:25 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (51 lines)

At 3:02 pm -0600 10/3/99, Nik Taylor wrote:
>Brian Betty wrote:
>> It is also archaic in some phonological ways, too: I understand the
>> original form the the verb "to ask" is something like "axan" (to 'aks');
>> Black English has maintained the older form while standard English dialects
>> have the nouveau "ask."
>
>Not quite.  The original form was "askan", but many dialects of Old
>English contained "aksan", and that dialectal variant either survived
>into Black English, or was recreated

No need for recreation - 'ax' survived in Brit English right up this
century - tho it's probably gone now as we approach the 21st.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 6:25 pm -0800 10/3/99, Josh Brandt-Young wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:02:35 -0600 Nik Taylor <[log in to unmask]> writes:
>
>>Not quite.  The original form was "askan"
>
>Make that "ascian." I'd like to know what happened to the I's in these
>verbs ("lufian" also, for example). It seems odd that they should have
>just disappeared instead of turning into approximants or something.

It's actually not uncommon for /j/ simply to disappear.  This happened
quite a lot, e.g. in Vulgar Latin.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 10:53 pm -0800 10/3/99, Sally Caves wrote:
.......
>
>WestSaxon dialect: OE: acsian  "to ask."

Yes, indeed, it did.  And the two forms, 'ax' and 'ask' have, I guess,
existed side by side in English for almost one and have millennia until
modern education made us all think 'ax' was incorrect  :=(

'Ax' certainly survived in Sussex, Hampshire, Gloucestershire,
Herefordshire, Somersetshire, Devonshire, East Anglia and Yorshire until
the last century & almost certainly in most, if not all, those areas until
the earlier decades of this century.  As a lot of the sailors taking slaves
across to the New World came from the Somerset & Devon regions I suspect
they never heard 'ask' at all!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A similar sort of word is WOPS = wasp.

My Sussex-born grandfather _always_ talked 'wopses'.  And in OE we find
both 'waesp' and 'waeps'.  I still occasionally use the form even now.

Ray.

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