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CONLANG  April 1999, Week 4

CONLANG April 1999, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Translating Cortazar - into Valdyan

From:

FFlores <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:39:50 -0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (126 lines)

Irina Rempt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>=20
> On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, FFlores wrote:
>=20
> > Let me propose this short story for Julio Cort=E1zar,
> > in the original Spanish version, plus interlinear glosses.
> > Not really that different from English, but...
>=20
> [...]
>=20
> > Well, this should be easy...=20
>=20
> Well, I had to make up a lot of words, even "sun" (I did have "star",
> "moon" and "planet") and there was one very awkward sentence in it.

"Sun" is a very strange word to find oneself lacking it
after a time. But it can happen. Some time ago I was
writing something in Drasel=E9q and I found out that there
was no word (in a dictionary of 1200 words) for "go".

> cyne      vurie    lushean gylat =20
> presently inspired message writes
> "Then, being inspired, he writes a message."
>=20
> Not the proclamation, but the general is inspired, because _vurie_
> "divinely inspired" can only apply to people. I could have juggled
> participles, but that would give a very archaic flavour that I don't
> want here.=20

I think it's perfectly OK; in fact "an inspired message"
sounds awkward except you interpret it as "a message that
was inspired (to the writer, by someone else)".

> hanii        arani       airenen  le denayt
> adolescents  two.hundred to-ruler they-go
> "Two hundred boys go [over] to the general."
>=20
> I thought at first that _infantes_ might mean "infantrymen", but my
> mother-in-law (who knows Spanish) consulted her dictionary and
> confirmed the meaning as "children". As I can't conceive of 200
> *small* kids in an army, I translated it as _hanii_ "adolescents,
> boys" (in their early teens). _Le dena_ "to go (to)" is reflexive in
> Valdyan like in Spanish, "to put oneself".

Oh my! You were right, I glossed the word wrong. It was
"infantrymen". I was sure I had heard "infants" in English
with this meaning, but I was wrong. But you mother-in-law
(or her dictionary, in any case) was right: Spanish _infantes_
means "children", though it's very rare in that sense nowadays;
but it also means "infantryman" (the collective is _infanter=EDa_
"infantry").

Sorry to Boudewijn -- he did the same thing based on my incorrect
translation :(


> tamustin   ili ruyen         len    le denayt
> DIM.armies two to-right.side to-his they.go
> "Two regiments go [over] to his side."

Is that the standard order, noun + number?

> _Tamustin_ can mean a city militia or a regiment maintained by a noble
> house; as Valdyas has no standing army, these groups make up the army
> in times of war. As "army" is a collective plural it can't be
> pluralized again, but _ili_ "two" is enough to determine it. _Ruyen_
> "right side" (as opposed to "left side", not "wrong side") is the
> usual way of expressing "being on someone's side" as well as
> "standing at someone's side".

So "they go to his right side"? If they go to his left side,
does that mean they go to his enemy's side?

> cyne      airenan lushean hyrna gylat =20
> presently ruler   message other writes
> "Then the general writes another message."
>=20
> (meaning "a different message", not "one more message")

Very interesting distinction.


> lea nysat    mustinan airenein
> is-sent-away army     of-ruler=20
> "The general's army disbands."
>=20
> My first effort had _mustin airenein vilat_ "the general's army falls
> apart" but _vila_ implies complete disintegration or destruction;
> there is no army any more, whatever the cause. _Lea nysat_ conveys
> the impression that the individual soldiers go away.

If I understood right what you said once about _lea_,
it's not passive voice but an impersonal construction,
is it?

> gyrn chylat.
> sun  appears
> "The sun rises."

How do you pronounce <gyrn>?

Very nice work. You got an A. :)
I agree with you that these exercises are very useful
for enlarging our vocabularies. I'll see to it that
they don't stop coming in.

Now that I see it, I haven't tried this myself!


--Pablo Flores


PS  You can try this:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
En    gian idgrivar fr=FAmneltel frasi=E9rraser
about your ill-fate guilty     NEG.point_at.2sFUT

gian pavonn    be i   malladhar siqged=FCer.
your enemy.ACC if PRT chance    PRF.give.2sPST

"Don't blame your enemy for your disgrace=20
 if you've just given them a chance."

(Traditional Dr=E1selhadh saying)

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