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CONLANG  May 1999, Week 2

CONLANG May 1999, Week 2

Subject:

Tsema means "like"; was Verimak.

From:

Sally Caves <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 10 May 1999 22:57:20 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (313 lines)

--------------6B462F11A2A6512E09726C97
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nut.brown.edu id WAA27532

This is really quite good, Padraic... all of these
are excellent.  But I can't believe that I left
out yet another damned word!  I think Boudewijn
complained of this, too, but I forgot to include
it with the others.  _Tsema_ means "like."  The
"toryo" is like the "tenvvyo."  I don't even
really know what it means in the original.  Has
anyone guessed that by the way?  I will give you
a hint in my shorter translation exercise.  And
THEN I had really better get around to posting
my version of Boudewijn's brothel poem.  But
I've run into some graduation business, and I
don't want to do a hasty job of it (the poem).  But I
promise it, cross my heart.  Irina has also
asked for something creative, but that will have
to wait until after Sunday.

Sally

PS  I like the periphrasis that makes your passage
so Celtic in quality!  "there is to them..."  I
also like your inclusion of the gods to stand
for thunder and lightning.

Padraic Brown wrote:

> On Sun, 9 May 1999, Sally Caves wrote:
>
> > > Padraic... since you commented, I want you to take a go at
> > > "Verimak" in Kernu.  I'd love to see what you come up with!
>
> All right, what I came up with:
>
> Nunck Depossci
> never hereafter
>
> I.
> Le caleor la sulle ne depossci temas outh,
> the heat of the sun never hereafter fear at all
>
> nel eduo la ire le Duvotemme,
> neither the ardour of the anger of Winter
>
> ty la ndeva oficinne mmortal tu ai cofacc=FA,
> thou thy Mortal Office thou has finished with
>
> da ndeva ndomme tu ai e=FA,
> to thy home thou has gone
>
> le ndeu salte tu ai attrai=FA.
> thy wage packet thou has taken
>
> Y mheip e mheirch de or,
> the lads and lassies of gold
>
> commy mhunneori le fhocces,
> like cleaners of hearths
>
> dond ay il ke ys si poneor in cravine.
> there is to them that they must even be put to dust
>
> II.
> Le desplacer le maculles ne depossci temas outh,
> the displeasure of lords never hereafter fear at all
>
> ty ist ilalla de la crueltate le reges amatos;
> thou are yonder beyond the cruelty of kings evil
>
> la ncaron ei vhestes ne dongenas pass;
> meat and clothes put not to thy head at all
>
> sorry tu, saat petra o aconna.
> as for thee, she's rock or stone
>
> ys y thot cestes ys seckeor,
> they must all seek this
>
> dond ay il ke si poneor in cravine.
> there is to them that they must even be put to dust
>
> III.
> Le ngladh le Lucete ne depossci temas outh,
> the sword of Lucket never hereafter fear at all
>
> nei thempennes temeverents le Taranne.
> neither the fearsome drums of Taran
>
> ne temas outh des llandeores o y whoudneores le contemte.
> fear not of slanders or the wounds of contempt
>
> le ndeu redent e le ndeu lacremant tu ai cofacc=FA.
> thy laughing and thy crying thou has finished with
>
> persecuteores, char=FAs, carents:
> suitors, beloved, lovers
>
> a cell ys acadeor,
> to that they all must even fall
>
> dond ay sempeor il ke ys si poneor in cravine.
> there is to them that they must ever be put to dust
>
> ********
>
> crava is gravel, like you find in streams; but when the diminutive -in-=
 is
> added, it becomes dust.
>
> Lucket and Taran are thought to be brothers that are always getting int=
o a
> row about something.  Lucet swings his sword (lightning) in his brother=
's
> face; who then gets mad and bangs away on his great drum (lightning).  =
The
> sound of which annoys Lucet all the more, and swings the sword closer .=
..
> and you get the idea.
>
> I couldn't find "tsema" in the vocabulary, nor in the main dictionary; =
so
> I fudged and made something up.  I'm not sure if conveys an idea even
> close to the original, but I like the idea conveyed: when you're dead
> stuff here doesn't matter, it's all either rock or stone.
>
> llandeors (slander) is an interesting word in that it was borrowed from
> French as a phrase d'esclandre, which was poorly interpreted as "des
> clandre" =3D des (de ex) clandur, of slander.  Thus the nominative fell=
 prey
> to the cl > ll rule; while the es- part was interpreted as the preposit=
ion
> es, derived from Latin ex.  When in the oblique case, llandeors always
> takes the double preposition des (de + es); like several other French
> borrowings.
>
> woudneors, believe it or not derives from vulnus.  The "l" got assimila=
ted
> to "n", which in this kind of location becomes "dn".
>
> I know "persecuteors" looks like persecutor, but it's _really_ suitor. =
 On
> the other hand, isn't persecutor what a suitor really is?  After all, y=
ou
> persecute some poor lass until she breaks down and marries you? ;-)
>
> I like the poem rather a lot.  Can't wait to find out its "true identit=
y".
>
> Padraic.



--------------6B462F11A2A6512E09726C97
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
<TT>This is really quite good, Padraic... all of these</TT>
<BR><TT>are excellent.&nbsp; But I can't believe that I left</TT>
<BR><TT>out yet another damned word!&nbsp; I think Boudewijn</TT>
<BR><TT>complained of this, too, but I forgot to include</TT>
<BR><TT>it with the others.&nbsp; _Tsema_ means "like."&nbsp; The</TT>
<BR><TT>"toryo" is like the "tenvvyo."&nbsp; I don't even</TT>
<BR><TT>really know what it means in the original.&nbsp; Has</TT>
<BR><TT>anyone guessed that by the way?&nbsp; I will give you</TT>
<BR><TT>a hint in my shorter translation exercise.&nbsp; And</TT>
<BR><TT>THEN I had really better get around to posting</TT>
<BR><TT>my version of Boudewijn's brothel poem.&nbsp; But</TT>
<BR><TT>I've run into some graduation business, and I</TT>
<BR><TT>don't want to do a hasty job of it (the poem).&nbsp; But I</TT>
<BR><TT>promise it, cross my heart.&nbsp; Irina has also</TT>
<BR><TT>asked for something creative, but that will have</TT>
<BR><TT>to wait until after Sunday.</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>Sally</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>PS&nbsp; I like the periphrasis that makes your passage</TT>
<BR><TT>so Celtic in quality!&nbsp; "there is to them..."&nbsp; I</TT>
<BR><TT>also like your inclusion of the gods to stand</TT>
<BR><TT>for thunder and lightning.</TT>

<P>Padraic Brown wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>On Sun, 9 May 1999, Sally Caves wrote:

<P>> > Padraic... since you commented, I want you to take a go at
<BR>> > "Verimak" in Kernu.&nbsp; I'd love to see what you come up with!

<P>All right, what I came up with:

<P>Nunck Depossci
<BR>never hereafter

<P>I.
<BR>Le caleor la sulle ne depossci temas outh,
<BR>the heat of the sun never hereafter fear at all

<P>nel eduo la ire le Duvotemme,
<BR>neither the ardour of the anger of Winter

<P>ty la ndeva oficinne mmortal tu ai cofacc&uacute;,
<BR>thou thy Mortal Office thou has finished with

<P>da ndeva ndomme tu ai e&uacute;,
<BR>to thy home thou has gone

<P>le ndeu salte tu ai attrai&uacute;.
<BR>thy wage packet thou has taken

<P>Y mheip e mheirch de or,
<BR>the lads and lassies of gold

<P>commy mhunneori le fhocces,
<BR>like cleaners of hearths

<P>dond ay il ke ys si poneor in cravine.
<BR>there is to them that they must even be put to dust

<P>II.
<BR>Le desplacer le maculles ne depossci temas outh,
<BR>the displeasure of lords never hereafter fear at all

<P>ty ist ilalla de la crueltate le reges amatos;
<BR>thou are yonder beyond the cruelty of kings evil

<P>la ncaron ei vhestes ne dongenas pass;
<BR>meat and clothes put not to thy head at all

<P>sorry tu, saat petra o aconna.
<BR>as for thee, she's rock or stone

<P>ys y thot cestes ys seckeor,
<BR>they must all seek this

<P>dond ay il ke si poneor in cravine.
<BR>there is to them that they must even be put to dust

<P>III.
<BR>Le ngladh le Lucete ne depossci temas outh,
<BR>the sword of Lucket never hereafter fear at all

<P>nei thempennes temeverents le Taranne.
<BR>neither the fearsome drums of Taran

<P>ne temas outh des llandeores o y whoudneores le contemte.
<BR>fear not of slanders or the wounds of contempt

<P>le ndeu redent e le ndeu lacremant tu ai cofacc&uacute;.
<BR>thy laughing and thy crying thou has finished with

<P>persecuteores, char&uacute;s, carents:
<BR>suitors, beloved, lovers

<P>a cell ys acadeor,
<BR>to that they all must even fall

<P>dond ay sempeor il ke ys si poneor in cravine.
<BR>there is to them that they must ever be put to dust

<P>********

<P>crava is gravel, like you find in streams; but when the diminutive -in-
is
<BR>added, it becomes dust.

<P>Lucket and Taran are thought to be brothers that are always getting
into a
<BR>row about something.&nbsp; Lucet swings his sword (lightning) in his
brother's
<BR>face; who then gets mad and bangs away on his great drum (lightning).&nbsp;
The
<BR>sound of which annoys Lucet all the more, and swings the sword closer
...
<BR>and you get the idea.

<P>I couldn't find "tsema" in the vocabulary, nor in the main dictionary;
so
<BR>I fudged and made something up.&nbsp; I'm not sure if conveys an idea
even
<BR>close to the original, but I like the idea conveyed: when you're dead
<BR>stuff here doesn't matter, it's all either rock or stone.

<P>llandeors (slander) is an interesting word in that it was borrowed from
<BR>French as a phrase d'esclandre, which was poorly interpreted as "des
<BR>clandre" = des (de ex) clandur, of slander.&nbsp; Thus the nominative
fell prey
<BR>to the cl > ll rule; while the es- part was interpreted as the preposition
<BR>es, derived from Latin ex.&nbsp; When in the oblique case, llandeors
always
<BR>takes the double preposition des (de + es); like several other French
<BR>borrowings.

<P>woudneors, believe it or not derives from vulnus.&nbsp; The "l" got
assimilated
<BR>to "n", which in this kind of location becomes "dn".

<P>I know "persecuteors" looks like persecutor, but it's _really_ suitor.&nbsp;
On
<BR>the other hand, isn't persecutor what a suitor really is?&nbsp; After
all, you
<BR>persecute some poor lass until she breaks down and marries you? ;-)

<P>I like the poem rather a lot.&nbsp; Can't wait to find out its "true
identity".

<P>Padraic.</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------6B462F11A2A6512E09726C97--

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October 2009, Week 4
October 2009, Week 3
October 2009, Week 2
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July 2009, Week 1
June 2009, Week 5
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June 2009, Week 1
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May 2009, Week 4
May 2009, Week 3
May 2009, Week 2
May 2009, Week 1
April 2009, Week 5
April 2009, Week 4
April 2009, Week 3
April 2009, Week 2
April 2009, Week 1
March 2009, Week 5
March 2009, Week 4
March 2009, Week 3
March 2009, Week 2
March 2009, Week 1
February 2009, Week 4
February 2009, Week 3
February 2009, Week 2
February 2009, Week 1
January 2009, Week 5
January 2009, Week 4
January 2009, Week 3
January 2009, Week 2
January 2009, Week 1
December 2008, Week 5
December 2008, Week 4
December 2008, Week 3
December 2008, Week 2
December 2008, Week 1
November 2008, Week 5
November 2008, Week 4
November 2008, Week 3
November 2008, Week 2
November 2008, Week 1
October 2008, Week 5
October 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 2
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
September 2008, Week 4
September 2008, Week 3
September 2008, Week 2
September 2008, Week 1
August 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
August 2008, Week 1
July 2008, Week 5
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 5
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 3
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 5
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 3
May 2008, Week 2
May 2008, Week 1
April 2008, Week 5
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 5
March 2008, Week 4
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 2
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 5
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 3
February 2008, Week 2
February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007, Week 5
December 2007, Week 4
December 2007, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
December 2007, Week 1
November 2007, Week 5
November 2007, Week 4
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 5
October 2007, Week 4
October 2007, Week 3
October 2007, Week 2
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 5
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
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September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
August 2007, Week 4
August 2007, Week 3
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August 2007, Week 1
July 2007, Week 5
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July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
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June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
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May 2007, Week 3
May 2007, Week 2
May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
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April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
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September 2006, Week 1
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August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
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March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 3
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
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January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
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November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
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January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 1
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November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
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October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
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September 2000, Week 1
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August 2000, Week 3
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August 2000, Week 1
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June 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 1
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May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
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