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CONLANG  May 1999, Week 2

CONLANG May 1999, Week 2

Subject:

Re: "Verimak": jumping into the translation marathon

From:

Sally Caves <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 9 May 1999 19:45:50 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (160 lines)

--------------A89E4BF170EA8B297401AD0C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi folks, one more correction:

I also left out "il" in the last line of the first stanza,
but those of you who've dabbled in Teonaht will recognize
it as the object form of the definite article-- "the."

I've just now seen Boudewijn's and Matthias' translations
into their respective conlangs...  this is all so UTTERLY
FASCINATING!  I'm sitting here with big smiles wreathing
my face... yes multiple, I can hardly contain myself!!  I
think we should do MORE of this.  I don't dare correct
either one of them, because I don't want to prejudice anybody
else who might want to do this exercise, which I think is
a brilliant invention.  Not only does it get us learning and
dealing with other people's conlangs in ways that we didn't
before, but it shows us how completely DIFFERENTLY we think
in our own conlangs.  Here are Boudewijn and Matthias with
strikingly different interpretations, due I think in great
part to their strikingly different conlangs!

Also, it shows me that Teonaht is not nearly as transparent
as I had feared it was, that it doesn't just relexify English.
Hmmmmm.

Well... I'm supposed to translate a steamingly erotic poem
from Denden into Teonaht, which I'm also supposed to post
(me all blushes), but I'll hold out on that until we get some
other takers for "Verimak."  Surely somebody else wants to
try their hand at it in their own conlang.  If you don't
have a word for "chimney," then you need to invent one, or
its closest equivalent.  Other than that, the concepts are
pretty universal.  Boudewijn, you named the correct poet,
but I won't tell you which.  A hint:  the first and last
lines of each of the stanzas is supposed to repeat itself
with minor variations to give some sense of poetic repetition.
The original poet does it with so much more flair and concision
than I've managed in this basically prose version, but there it
is.

Matthias, this weekend I visited your lively webpage.  I like it!
Is that a picture of you in the hat?

Padraic... since you commented, I want you to take a go at
"Verimak" in Kernu.  I'd love to see what you come up with!


Remember these additions to the glossary:

        hovikary   going towards the hovik, "house or home(ward)."
        enyvo, a substantive: eating, meal
        fimuol, another substantive: clothing, dress.
        send,  "and."    Boudewijn's "and then" was very close.
        il,  "the" (object case).  I believe that in Teonaht there
            is no such rule that it has to be nominative on either
            side of the copula or copula-like verbs (become, seem,
            etc.)

Just out of curiosity... are either of you using the webpage? or
is the posted message easier for you?  The webpage I thought would
be easier because of the lateral gloss.  But then I had to print
out "lamay-neranmen."

Don't forget to translate the title, "Verimak."

vyko...
Sally
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/verimak.html
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teoeng.html

--------------A89E4BF170EA8B297401AD0C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
<TT>Hi folks, one more correction:</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>I also left out "il" in the last line of the first stanza,</TT>
<BR><TT>but those of you who've dabbled in Teonaht will recognize</TT>
<BR><TT>it as the object form of the definite article-- "the."</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>I've just now seen Boudewijn's and Matthias' translations</TT>
<BR><TT>into their respective conlangs...&nbsp; this is all so UTTERLY</TT>
<BR><TT>FASCINATING!&nbsp; I'm sitting here with big smiles wreathing</TT>
<BR><TT>my face... yes multiple, I can hardly contain myself!!&nbsp; I</TT>
<BR><TT>think we should do MORE of this.&nbsp; I don't dare correct</TT>
<BR><TT>either one of them, because I don't want to prejudice anybody</TT>
<BR><TT>else who might want to do this exercise, which I think is</TT>
<BR><TT>a brilliant invention.&nbsp; Not only does it get us learning and</TT>
<BR><TT>dealing with other people's conlangs in ways that we didn't</TT>
<BR><TT>before, but it shows us how completely DIFFERENTLY we think</TT>
<BR><TT>in our own conlangs.&nbsp; Here are Boudewijn and Matthias with</TT>
<BR><TT>strikingly different interpretations, due I think in great</TT>
<BR><TT>part to their strikingly different conlangs!</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>Also, it shows me that Teonaht is not nearly as transparent</TT>
<BR><TT>as I had feared it was, that it doesn't just relexify English.</TT>
<BR><TT>Hmmmmm.</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>Well... I'm supposed to translate a steamingly erotic poem</TT>
<BR><TT>from Denden into Teonaht, which I'm also supposed to post</TT>
<BR><TT>(me all blushes), but I'll hold out on that until we get some</TT>
<BR><TT>other takers for "Verimak."&nbsp; Surely somebody else wants to</TT>
<BR><TT>try their hand at it in their own conlang.&nbsp; If you don't</TT>
<BR><TT>have a word for "chimney," then you need to invent one, or</TT>
<BR><TT>its closest equivalent.&nbsp; Other than that, the concepts are</TT>
<BR><TT>pretty universal.&nbsp; Boudewijn, you named the correct poet,</TT>
<BR><TT>but I won't tell you which.&nbsp; A hint:&nbsp; the first and last</TT>
<BR><TT>lines of each of the stanzas is supposed to repeat itself</TT>
<BR><TT>with minor variations to give some sense of poetic repetition.</TT>
<BR><TT>The original poet does it with so much more flair and concision</TT>
<BR><TT>than I've managed in this basically prose version, but there it</TT>
<BR><TT>is.</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>Matthias, this weekend I visited your lively webpage.&nbsp; I like
it!</TT>
<BR><TT>Is that a picture of you in the hat?</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>Padraic... since you commented, I want you to take a go at</TT>
<BR><TT>"Verimak" in Kernu.&nbsp; I'd love to see what you come up with!</TT>
<BR><TT></TT>&nbsp;<TT></TT>

<P><TT>Remember these additions to the glossary:</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hovikary&nbsp;&nbsp;
going towards the hovik, "house or home(ward)."</TT>
<BR><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; enyvo, a substantive:
eating, meal</TT>
<BR><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; fimuol, another substantive:
clothing, dress.</TT>
<BR><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; send,&nbsp; "and."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Boudewijn's "and then" was very close.</TT>
<BR><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; il,&nbsp; "the" (object
case).&nbsp; I believe that in Teonaht there</TT>
<BR><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
is no such rule that it has to be nominative on either</TT>
<BR><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
side of the copula or copula-like verbs (become, seem,</TT>
<BR><TT>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
etc.)</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>Just out of curiosity... are either of you using the webpage? or</TT>
<BR><TT>is the posted message easier for you?&nbsp; The webpage I thought
would</TT>
<BR><TT>be easier because of the lateral gloss.&nbsp; But then I had to
print</TT>
<BR><TT>out "lamay-neranmen."</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>Don't forget to translate the title, "Verimak."</TT><TT></TT>

<P><TT>vyko...</TT>
<BR><TT>Sally</TT>
<BR><TT><A HREF="http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/verimak.html">http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/verimak.html</A></TT>
<BR><TT><A HREF="http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teoeng.html">http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teoeng.html</A></TT></HTML>

--------------A89E4BF170EA8B297401AD0C--

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January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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