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AUXLANG  May 1999, Week 3

AUXLANG May 1999, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Logical language based on Esperanto/Ido

From:

Marcos Franco <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Mon, 17 May 1999 13:04:14 GMT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (110 lines)

On Sun, 16 May 1999 19:47:32 +0300, Robin Turner
<[log in to unmask]> skripted:
 
>> >I'd ditch the western syntactics, since this is what tends to make =
things
>> >ambiguous and hard to learn.
>>
>> I don't think that way. One can make an unambiguous grammar without
>> getting to far from western syntactics, and these are not hard to
>> learn (at least to us, cause we already know them!).
 
>Depends how unambiguous you want it,=20
 
Well, I want it to be totally syntactically unambiguous, and a bit
more semanthically unambiguous than Eo/Ido; i.e, it would distinguish
the two meanings of saluton (hello & greeting), ludi (play instrument
& play game), etc. =20
 
>and how much you're prepared to change
>it.  You would need, for example, to be very specific about adjective =
order (to
>disambiguate things like "Pretty little girls' school"),=20
 
Ok. Before the explanation below, I want to say one thing about
adjectives. There are three kind of adjectives in my system:
1. Direct ones (root+a): bela, morta, rega.
2. Nominal ones (noun+a): regoa, regea; personoa, Johanoa. These are
semanthically equivalent to "de + noun". They can have attached a
preposition, to change its default meaning: por-regoa, ad-Johanoa...
3. Derived ones: regala, explosiva, kolerema. Their meanings are
specified by the suffix.
 
The general phrase order of the language is stated this way:
 
1. An adjective modifies the noun after it. When there are two or more
one after the other, they affect the noun at the end, or (if it were
the case) the word they're hyphen-attached to. If there are several
hyphen-attached words, the first one is considered as attached to the
block formed by the others, etc. For instance:
- "Bela eta por-infaninea skolo". All adjectives affect "skolo".
- "Por-bela-eta-infaninea skolo" would mean "Skolo por bela eta
infanine.
- "Bela por-eta-infaninea skolo" would mean "Bela skolo por eta
infanine".
Etc.
Anyway, I think the best way to express this kind of phrases is that
which I have used to express the meanings of the examples. It's
clearer and you don't have to use hyphens.
 
2. A derived adverb (-am) modifies the vb/adj/adv rightly after it,
unless it's separated of it by a conjunction or a comma. A non-derived
one modifies just verbs and adjectives. To modify an adverb, it must
be derived (adv+am). Examples:
- "La nun egam rapidam oldija domo" would mean "La domo kio nun
oldijas egam rapidam", i.e. "The house which now gets old very
quickly".
- "La nun egam et rapidam oldija domo" would mean "La domo kio nun
oldijas egam et rapidam", i.e. "The house which now gets old very much
and quickly".
- "La nunam egam et rapidam oldija domo" would mean "The house which
now gets old very much and quickly".
- "La nunam egam het rapidam oldija domo" would mean "The house which
now gets old very much and also gets old quickly". (note: I'll explain
the use of "et/het" on other message).
 
Well, I have to insist on that this will not the normal way to say
things on my system, but I wanted to show it can unambiguously deal
with raws of adjectives, adverbs, etc.
 
>active/passive
>participles ("Moving machinery can be dangerous")
 
If "mova" means "which moves" (i.e. "which is not quiet") then we've
got "mova mashinaro" and "moviga mashinaro". I think the form "movija"
could also be used, but it would be redundant.
 
 and demarcation of phrases
>(hence all those Lojban terminators).
 
3. Prepositional phrases with adverbial function go after vb/adj/adv
they modify. Prepostional phrases with adjectival function go after
the noun they modify. The function of the phrase is given by the
preposition they use.
 
Yes, this doesn't adress the aspect you comment, but now that you know
these three sintactical rules, (and that I use SVO, and marked Object)
I'd like you to give me some example of a phrase that needs
demarcation to be unambiguous.
 
 
 
>Yes - what I meant was that you'd first have to Lojbanise your root =
words so
 
>> >Just a thought!
>> >
>
>And maybe in retrospect not such a brilliant one.  What I suggested =
would
>probably work, but might well fall between the two stools of naturalism =
and
>rigour.
 
Indeed. I nevertheless thank you any comment you do.
 
 
 
Saludos,
Marcos

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