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AUXLANG  May 1999, Week 3

AUXLANG May 1999, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Quel es do li spi'ritu de Occidental!

From:

"Robert J. Petry" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 16 May 1999 17:03:52 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (221 lines)

Ken Caviness wrote:
 
> Je 11:55 AM 5/16/99 -0700, Robert J. Petry skribis:
>
> >Ken Caviness wrote:
> >
> >> It's just hype, isn't it, Bob?  I ask you for a definition of your term,
> >> and you hand out more hype.  I explain that Occidental appears to me to
> >> have exactly the advantages and disadvantages of other naturalistic
> >> planlingvoj, but ask you to show me how it differs, and you "have BIG
> >> doubts" that I really want you to answer the question.  Well, to my
> >> satisfaction it has been demonstrated that (1) Occ is a good naturalistic
> >> planned language, no more, no less, and (2) your statements to the contrary
> >> are semantically empty.  I have _no_ more doubts about either of these
> points.
> >
> >First, it is not hype at all. As to your 1 and 2 points, they are
> "semantically"
> >empty, and without any proof of any kind, and are only personal preferences.
>
> Does this mean that you _don't_ think that Occ is a good naturalistic
> planned language?
 
If you will notice, you added to that expression a personal uninformed judgment,
"no more, no less". So, my reply stands.
 
> [kut]
> >
> >Oh ve', what a farce this statement is. Maybe you should take up sr. de
> Wahl's
> >challenge.
>
> Please remind me what it is.
 
Actually, I never said what it was. But, now that you've asked, here it is.
In his articul "Facilita' del aprension, he wrote:
 
Mem esperantistes qui prende seriosi li nov naturalistic direction in L.I. e
aprecia multcos in it, reprocha nos ta'men, que malgre' semblant facilita'
comprender li lingue (almen por li educat persones de Occidental cultural) [that
argument has been carried on for years by the die hard Espists and others and use
it as their reason for not learning Occ. I wonder if they will ever be able to
come up with an original viable argument?], it es tre desfacil scrir e parlar it,
pro li inregulari vocabularium e parolformation, que pro su intern economie de
paroles li practic conossentie de Espo es acquisitet in plu curt tempore; e que
just li possibilita' formar regularmen derivates "per bon differentiat affixes" es
un insuperabil qualita' de Espo, quel tamen es superior a omni L.I. sur neolatin
base.
 
Ti argumentes posse forsan applicar-se ad Interlingua de Prof. Peano, ma nullmen
al Occidental. [Then he goes on to explain clearly why. Then in the midst of the 5
page articul he says this:]
 
In Esperanto on simplicmen excamota li verita' que it contene in su vocabularium
mult mil exceptiones sin minimal etymologic o logic coherentie! Yo proposi al
seniroes Esperantistes prender un conosset complet vocabularium, p.ex. Bennemann,
e contar li paroles queles in Espo forma un exception proque ili sta extra li
derivation normal, a queles corresponde in Occidental regulari international
derivates; e )2 far li sam calcul invers por Occ e yo paria que tal exceptiones va
esser in Espo 100 vez plu quam in Occ! [that's it, that's his challenge.]
 
On fanfarona pri regularita del grammatica e tace pri li 10 000 exceptiones in li
vocabulariuim! Yo ha jettat li gante! Qui va sublevar it" [Ken Cav.?] Yo attende
response!
 
Li ulterior assertion de sr Collinson, que solmen Espo possede li capabilita'
formar derivates secun volunta', es fals, proque Occ have it in ancor plu grand
mesure, possedente apu li general anc plu specialisat affixes, queles da li
possibilita' formar nuancies mult plu precis quam Espo. ....
 
He further states after more examples of how Esperanto accusations are
ridiculously false about Occidental:
 
Nu, yo es curios vider p.ex. un person qui possede un Esperanto-clave o mem
complet grammatica e quelc numeros de Espo-gazetes qui vell scrir Espo sin
hesitation e con minu erras, quam in li sam casu con Occidental, mem si ti person
mey esser tre erudit e conossent mult lingues!
 
> >And, the last post I gave on the word formation of Esperanto is just one
> of the
> >complications of Esperanto.
>
> Regarding that last post, on the "complications" of Esperanto, I'm still
> hoping that someone with more expertise in Esperanto will comment on that.
 
Me too. This is one of the reasons Esperantist leaders have always made false
statements about Occ. They can't stand such continuous and unending examples being
made by others, especially Occ. And, I doubt that you can really do away with this
actual problem, Ken, because it is not just the two words I showed, even though
your answer below tries to explain it away.
 
>
> But if not, I'll come back to it and give it my humble best shot.  But as a
> "hint" (which you love, ^cu ne, Bob?) there are many _right_ ways to create
> words in Esperanto.  If you weren't already deceived by a steady diet of
> anti-Esperantist propaganda from K/Cosmo you would know that it's perfectly
> acceptable in Esperanto to combine roots/affixes in new ways, perhaps in
> ways never done before.  So this business of only some of the combinations
> being "corect" is _not_ "corect".  It is fair to say that some of these
> words are used more often than others, but if you put together a word and I
> understand it, we've communicated!  So if you've not yet run across the
> word "estingi" (extinguish), and you decide to put together "ek-mal-bruli"
> (begin to - opposite of - burn), fine!  Kudos to you for your ingenuity!
> The dreaded Vortfarada Polico de Esperanto will _not_ jail you for that.
> That power is your _right_ as a beginning Esperantist!
 
And, oh, I haven't finished by a long shot with the weaknesses of Esp. Vortfarada.
Did you know how many things you have to know in advance before you can form
proper words using Esperanto rules, especially if you don't have a dictionary
handy? It is way beyond what is required to do the same with Occ. It is really a
lot of excess baggage to have to carry around in order to do the word formatin.
But, I'll post some of that material later.
 
I notice you keep avoiding my challenge to put yours arguments into Esperanto
here.
 
> Iu-kaze, your post "Li extrem de simplicita'?" (as usual) doesn't list an
> author.  But it sounds like someone who should know better, but is hoping
> that his audience either won't understand enough Occidental or enough
> Esperanto to realize the fallacies of his argument.
 
Yes, it was based on material first mentioned by Esperantists, and then carried on
for the public consumption in a non-Esperantist magazine. Hope you read the
follow-up I sent quoting Esperantists about this subject.
 
> Or if he's lucky, any
> readers actually familiar with Esperanto will already be strong
> Occ-adherants, so they won't call him on his little game.  Unfortunately
> it's all too common for adherants of one planlingvo to misrepresent
> another.  I think of the Interlingua-ist Gopsill's comments on Esperanto,
> and the Esperantist Dalton's comments on Interlingua.  (And now I wish I
> hadn't thought of either!)
 
This is an interesting argument to justify Esperanto's not so simple word forming
method, since you said you hoped someone with strong Esperantist training could
tackle it. And, since the information came from Esperantist sources originally, I
guess "it's all too common for adherants of {Esperanto) to misrepresent (their
plainlingvo). Even Dr. Manders mentions some of these things. Even Dr. Z himself
mentioned one or more, but like all good Esperantists, they argue that he only did
this to make sure it wasn't accepted.
 
> ...
> >> You've never given any support (except vocabulary for Westerners) to your
> >> statements that Occidental is easier than Esperanto.
> >
> >Interesting subject, and I'd love to get into that also. Including the
> responses
> >of Japanese Esperantists in regard to Esperanto. And, besides, to my
> knowledge
> >there are no Orientals on this list so I have answered to the make up of this
> >lilst as I understand it.
>
> Too bad for us here.  But there are Japanese, Chinese, Korean Esperantists
> on the newsgroup soc.culture.esperanto, so when you feel like learning the
> approx. 30 affixes you need to get up to speed, you can come chat with us
> there!  It's unfair, but that's about all it would take for you --
 
Why, when if they were open to the idea, I could just use Occidental and they
would understand most of what I posted. They certainly couldn't come here and do
the same using Esperanto. Of course, you keep ignoring my points on this when you
reply. Have you gone out in the street yet with Esperanto and see how much
understanding you get from strangers? You need to do that Ken, and then try it
with Occidental and see what happens.
 
>
> Esperanto's root vocabulary is easier (or at least has more cognates) for a
> Westerner.  Dankon al Dio, it doesn't require learning as large a
> vocabulary as in "naturalistic" planlingvoj!  That really is (lau` mi)
> completely _unacceptable_ for an IAL in today's world.
 
No, it just requires learning multiple radicals for the same thing, which is not
required in Occ.
 
> [kut]
>
>
>
> However, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Bob:  it is not
> appropriate for you to post a message here on auxlang making your customary
> wildly inflated claims, and then refuse to back them up.  If the forum is
> good enough for the claims, it's good enough for the evidence, too.
 
You keep ignoring the most potent evidence there is. Actual experience. I keep
challenging you to go out and test Occ and Esp in the public, or posting your
Esperanto here without translation, and you keep avoiding any mention of that in
your replies. Any other reply I give you is just something you try to pick apart.
But, you can't pick apart live unsuspecting participants in YOUR presenting to
them texts in Occ and Esp and getting their reactions. And, you keep avoiding the
problem of having to find an Esperantist to use Esperanto with when traveling,
etc. which is not so much a problem with Occidental. But, you can make hay with
the diversion of constantly saying I refuse to answer certain of your questions.
Man, that really proves your point doesn't it, because there is no public testing
behind that, just your assertion that you must be right because I won't answer
certain questions. Do the tests, and quit ignoring my challenge to do so. That's
where the real proof is anyway. What have you got to lose?
 
> [kut]
>
> And incidentally, although you apparently continue to doubt my interest in
> Occidental, let me repeat that any planlingvo with a user base interests me
> greatly, so I'll probably come back and res*bscribe to your new mailing
> list one of these days.  I better hurry,  particularly if your glowing
> predictions for Occidental's renown spreading throughout the world in the
> next couple years come true!  Well, my desk is about half clear, so you may
> be hearing more from me soon.
 
Why wait to come back to the Occ list. You can begin using it here right now. You
have more than enough information, and since you are at the Univ. and considering
your work, you are an erudite who knows at least one "romance" lingue. And, since
that is the criteria set forth by Esperantists in order to be able to use
Occidental, there is really no excuse for you not to do so. You meet, and exceed
all the requirements argued by Esperantist apologists, so take them at their word,
since you do it with their other statements on Occ., and prove them right.
Otherwise, you are admiting that I have more intelligence than you and they have,
that I am an erudite, and highly educated European stock intelligencia, etc. Don't
prove them wrong, now, for they said you could do it. So, start now and prove them
right, that only educated people can learn and use Occidental.
 
Li plu max success a vu,
Bob, x+O~

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January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
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May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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August 1998, Week 1
July 1998, Week 5
July 1998, Week 4
July 1998, Week 3
July 1998, Week 2
July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
August 1997, Week 4
August 1997, Week 3
August 1997, Week 2
August 1997, Week 1
July 1997, Week 5
July 1997, Week 4
July 1997, Week 3
July 1997, Week 2
July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
June 1997, Week 3
June 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
February 1997, Week 4
February 1997, Week 3
February 1997, Week 2
February 1997, Week 1

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