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AUXLANG  May 1999, Week 3

AUXLANG May 1999, Week 3

Subject:

William Gilbert vs William Gilbert, Round 1

From:

"Robert J. Petry" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 16 May 1999 22:39:50 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (151 lines)

Quel es li Max Facil Lingue Auxiliari?
 
Esperantistes e Idistes asserte sovente que OCCIDENTAL es desfacil,
utilisante quam principal argumente que su gramatica contene
"exceptiones".
 
Cert prejudicas es vermen tenaci: Ti interlinguistes crede ancor,
secun un conception infantesc, que li facilita' de aprension de un
lingue depende precipue, si ne unicmen, del simplicita' formal del
gramatica.
 
Noi vell posser demandar les pro quo hispan es generalmen plu facil a
aprender por Franceses o Italianes, [remember the last post about
speaking to Itallians in ILa and then going to Spanish?] quam
Anglesi, benque su gramatica es mult plu complicat quam in ti ultim
idoma. [Whaaaaaat??????] ;--)))
 
Ili save tamen quant es desfacil li practic aplication de regules
gramatical rigorosimen matematic e "logic", in lingues "filosofic"
quam RO o SOL-RE-SOL.
 
In omni lingues auxiliari, li gramatica es reductet al minimum. Quelc
minutes sufice por memorar omni regules essential. Si noi introducte
3 o 4 exceptiones, noi va besonar 3 o 4 minutes suplementari por
retener les. Nor contraditores oblivia simplicmen que pos har
aprendet li gramatica de un idioma national o international, on
nullmen conosse e save parlar ti lingue, e que li max grand parte del
labor resta a far! To ne plu es un question de minutes, ma de
centenes de hores. Altrimen dit, li te'mpor necessi por studial li
gramatica es relativmen insignificant, specialmen in un L.I., e on ne
posse alegar li existentie de quelc exceptiones por justificar un
pretendet desfacilita' de aprension de un lingue. [This is beginning
to knock Mr. Gilbert's later reversal already. For, in the later
article he tries to do what he just said was no problem, i.e. to
aledge the existence of some exceptions to justify a PRETENDED
dificulty of learning of a language." Veeeerrrrryyyyy Interesting,
Watson.]
 
Nequi posse seriosimen contestar que li ver desfacilita's es:
1 Li traduction del idiotismes.
2 Li amemoration del vocabularium.
3. Li rect usation del prepositiones.
 
Por li national lingues, on deve adjunter li amemoration de multissim
idiotismes e li usation del prepositiones, quel ne es sempre conform
a un minimal logica.
 
Pri li punctus 1 e 3, null diferentie inter OCCIDENTAL e li altri
L.I.
 
Pri li punctu 2, li quelc "exceptiones" de nor lingue permisse
retrovar paroles familiari, e memorar talmen un enorm vocabularium,
infinitmen plu rapidmen quam in omni altri idiomas auxiliari.
[Whoooooaaaa Willy, what's that again?] Li ci-supra 3 o 4 minutes
suplementari es compensat per centenes de hores sparniat in li studie
del vocabularium! U es li desfacilita', si ne precismen in
Esperanto-Ido? [That's it, hit Willy, Willy, yeah, go for it kid.]
 
Por exemple, li regul DE WAHL, li duplic son de C, etc... permisse
retrovar, quam on save, millenes de paroles international sub lor
form natural. [Atta boy willy!], durante que li artificcial, rigid
regules de ESPERANTO-IDO da nascentie a monstrus tam plu desfacilmen
memorabil que ili es plu lontan del formes natural. [hit him again
willy, hit willy again.;-)]
 
Ad-plu [oh no, you mean there's more?] li "exceptiones" de OCCIDENTAL
ne deve esser utilisat por celar li facte que ESPERANTO e IDO have
exceptiones e complicationes gramatical vermen inexcusabil. [That's
my boy Willy, keep it up, you're doing good.]
 
Li diferentie jace in to, que li regules gramatical de OCCIDENTAL
facilisa li aprension del vocabularium, durante que tis de
ESPERANTO-IDO (mem si ili vell esser plu facil in se self) fa plu
desfacil li practic usation del lingue (Exemples: li acusative de
ESPERANTO, li te'mpores composit del conjugation, e li
parol-formation de ESPERANTO-IDO, etc...). Altrimen dit, on ne deve
regardar li gramatica in se self, ma su practic consequenties
[important point, PRACTICAL...]. Li studie del gramatica ne es li
scope a atinger, it es li medie por facilisar li aprension del
lingue.
 
Ma on responde nos: "To es ver por Anglo-latin popules, qui ja
conosse ti vocabules international, ne por li altres."
 
On mey considerar in prim que ti popules representa li tot America e
un parte important de Europa [by the way, I have no problems with
understanding clearly and precisely what Willy is saying, funny, I
thought Occidental couldn't do that.] que nequi til nu posset negar
li influentie del greco-latin in omni grand lingues de civilisation
europan e su quasi exclusiv usatin in li vocabularium scientific e
tecnic international, que li lingues europan expande se tra li tot
terra, durante que lu invers ne existe, que in oriental landes on ne
posse concepter li relationes international sin li conossentie de un
europan idioma...
 
Tal es li situation linguistic tra li munde, tal es li factes, e on
deve regardar li factes in facie, e ne far revas utopic in li nubes,
lontan del terra!
 
Ma noi mey prender queicunc rurano in China o Japan e docer le in sam
tempore ESPERANTO-IDO e OCCIDENTAL... Si on vole atribuer tant
importantie al gramatica, esque on crede vermen que ti rurano va
assimilar se plu facilmen li acusative de ESPERANTO, li conjugation
sintetic e li complicat tempores composit de ESPERANTO-IDO? Resta li
vocabularium, quo es vermen lu important: On asserte nos que li
derivation de OCCIDENTAL ne es "logic" e que ta jace li real
desfacilita' por Orientales. Noi ha sovente monstrat in COSMOGLOTTA
que li famosi logica de ESPERANTO-IDO es un ver duperie, [what did
you say Willy?], que it existe solmen in teorie. Li hiperlogica quel
nor contraditores sercha vanmen es un principie aplicabil solmen in
matematica, e matematica e interlinguistica es du coses extremmen
diferent.
 
Adplu, {more??] li paroles international have tant fortie que ti
sistemas adopte les plu e plu, quam "extran radicas" (Ples notar ti
culmine de inlogisme: li paroles international, in un lingue
international, es considerat quam extran!!!) [I agree Willy, that it
is strange that it is considered wrong to use international words in
an "international" language. My, what's this world coming too?]
Resultate: u on deve aprender UN radica in OCCIDENTAL, 2 o 3 es
necessi in ESPERANTO=-IDO, e li revues esperantistic self ha devet
signalar li protestationes de lor oriental coidealistes qui ne
comprende ti acumulation de vocabules con sam signification (Exemple:
AERFLUGADO e AVIACO). In OCCIDENTAL, it sufice conosser UN derivate
international (Ex: AVIA-T_ION) por haver li clave de omni paroles del
sam familie e talmen far comprender se inmediatmen de milliones de
homes civilisat, quo es particularimen atrativ e util por ne
anglo-romanic popules!
 
Dunc, egal qualmen on torna li question, li conclusion es evident:
OCCIDENTAL es ya mult plu facil quam ESPERANTO-IDO, it es li tip del
lingue mundal del future!
 
Great article, and great conclusion. So, having said all those facts
above, why did sr Gilbert go back to Esperanto?
 
I posted the answer before, and it is in the archives if anyone cares
to check it. But, the reason was, he wanted to pursue work in
communism and joined an Esperantist club? that was involved in just
that. This is probably why his criticism tht Don posted is a
"half-hearted" attempt,since he knew better, but had to try and
support his need to use Esperanto among the group he wanted to work
with.
 
Of course, I suspect most have not read the above very closely, so
will not see the difference or care, one way or the other. But, hey,
that's life.
 
Cordialmen,
Bob, x+O~

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