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CONLANG  May 1999, Week 4

CONLANG May 1999, Week 4

Subject:

Re: transitivity

From:

"From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 27 May 1999 17:16:23 EDT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (65 lines)

> Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 27/05/99 20:53:04 , Fabian a =E9crit :
> =20
> > > Hello all.
> > >
> > > I've been thinking about making a lang which distinguishes
> > > between zero-transitive, intransitive, transitive and
> > > ditransitive (is that the English term?) verbs in that
> > > the conjugation would be different in each form.
> > > (And possibly also distinguish between verbs that
> > > don't have an agent, eg. "I sleep" and verbs that do.)
> > >
> > > 0. (It) rains [no S or O]
> > > 1. I sleep [only S]
> > > 2. I eat (food) [S and O]
> > > 3. I give (it to you) [1 S and 2 Os]
> > =20
> > =20
> > It seems to me that you are falling into teh trap of forcing English=20
> idiom
> > into your grammar. COnsider 'it is raining'. Here is how different=20
> languages
> > do this:
> > =20
> > French: il pleut [it rains]
> > Maltese: ix xita [the rain]
> > Japanese: ame ga furu [rain falls]
> > =20
> > Note that teh second doesn't even have a verb. Japanese follows patter=
n=20
> no.1
> > in your model.
> >=20
> =20
> I would suggest to take into consideration the various degrees of=20
> integration from syntagme to lexie.
> =20
> example 1 :
> the child takes the bus (toy) and throws it > the bus is taken by the=20
child.
> "takes the bus" is a syntagme verbal made of a "verb" and an "accusative=20
> noun".
> =20
> example 2 :
> I take the bus > *the bus is taken by me.
> "takes the bus" is a lexie : "bus" and "take" are semantically integrated=
.=20
> "the bus" is not considered an accusative anymore, it is integrated into=20
"to=20
> take" as an applicative.
> So i do not consider "ame ga furu" as a syntagme but as a lexie like "se=20
ga=20
> takai", "atama ga ii", "ki ga tsuku", "kuchikazu ga ooi", etc.
> So i would rather consider "ame ga furu" to be pattern 0. But again, this=20
> depends on where you draw the line of word integration.
> =20
> > ---
> > Fabian
> > Rule One: Question the unquestionable,
> > ask the unaskable, eff the ineffable,
> > think the unthinkable, and screw the inscrutable.
> =20
> Mathias
> "ici est l'ailleurs d'un autre".
> =20

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