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CONLANG  June 1999, Week 1

CONLANG June 1999, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Universal Translation Language

From:

"From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:06:16 EDT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (99 lines)

Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 05/06/99 16:21:00  , vous avez =E9crit :

> Mathias, what you write is usually interesting, but often contains terms
>  that at least I am unfamiliar with... take for instance the message=20
rounding=20
>=20
>  off this mail. Is this simply due to you being French, and having to=20
> translate
>  everything, or, do you take your terms from a school of linguistics that =
I=20
> am
>  unfamiliar with?
it's mainly due to the fact i'm a french ignorant of proper linguistics=20
having mainly read famous french "grammariens philosophes". that's why i=20
often get on linguists' nerves on this list. sally, david durand and bdw=20
rempt apparently got used to that and leniently and silently let me rabbitin=
g=20
on now. my last blunder was the time i used french "actant" instead of=20
english "actor". oh well.

 Sure, I can find explanations of terms like 'attributive'=20
> and
>  'equative' in my copy of "A dictionary of grammatical terms in=20
linguistics"=20
> by=20
>  R. L Trask (hereby recommended to all), but he doesn't mention in what=20
> branch=20
>  of linguistics this originated, and gives no context whatsoever.
> =20
>  So in what books did you pick up these terms, and if they are in French=20
only,
>=20
>  can you recommend a good French -> English linguistic dictionary?

i don't know any good dictionary and honestly i don't think you should care=20
so much as to try and translate my prosa.  if i remember well "attribution"=20
and "actance" are the two alternative "comportements" or "rhemes"=20
("behaviour" ?) of the theme. "attribution" is what you get when you switch=20
off "actance" and conversely. "=E9quatif" is equative i guess. well i'd bett=
er=20
go back to my books and check that because i feel maybe things are not=20
granted for you and i may be wrong anyway. it's all very clear and simple in=20
my head without all those difficult words. all i write is only speculation=20
based on my own problems when translating english and japanese re-written=20
with the lingvoc i pick in classical basics of famous french authors like=20
bernard pottier and claude hag=E8ge. they write books you never find maths i=
n=20
them. that's why they are the only lingbooks i can read.
but terms like attribution are the very important, basic theories you learn=20
in france. i learned them in my linguistic course when graduating in=20
japanese. i await contradicting mails from linguists to make my own=20
speculation clearer.

french conlangers (didier, christophe and me + pierre now) agreed last=20
meeting that we here spontaneously analyse basic utterances in a very=20
different way from english speaking conlangers, not because of the differenc=
e=20
between languages (italian or spanish structures are far more remote from=20
french than english) but maybe because of differences of "philosophies".

for instance i cannot think myself of any "word" standing alone by itself :=20
concepts are always paired. even one "word" alone stands for two concepts=20
(theme and rheme). also "word" (mot) does not mean much to us : we speak of=20
"=E9nonc=E9 minimal" (minimal utterance).=20

also christophe and i spontaneously designed a similar conlang structure=20
distinguishing "substance" from "actance" (english "role" ?) in one "word".=20
the distinction i make between "ratio" and "finis" is the one i learned way=20
back in college philosophy courses to distinguish "l'essence" from "l'action=
".

> =20
>  Oh btw, Fate permitting, I now have a minor in linguistics.

congratulations.

The linguistics=20
>  department of my university (http://www.ntnu.no) concentrates on pragmati=
cs
>  (Relationally so), semantics (mostly Montague), syntax (HPSG now, but=20
> formerly=20
>  one of Chomsky's strongholds), African languages (lotsa classes on Swahil=
i=20
> here)
>  and that section of CompLing that uses the computer as a tool for=20
> linguistics,=20
>  and not the other way around :). Just so that my perspective on things is=20
> known.
>

i get it. this is very interesting. i'm sorry i don't know much about these.=20
however there are 2 french labs dealing with same in grenoble and nancy=20
(france).
> =20
>  tal.
> =20

mathias

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