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CONLANG  June 1999, Week 4

CONLANG June 1999, Week 4

Subject:

The write direction (was: Interesting Brain/Language Nugget of Info)

From:

"Raymond A. Brown" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:15:11 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (154 lines)

At 12:50 am +0200 26/6/99, Kristian Jensen wrote:
>Nik Taylor wrote:
>
>>John Cowan wrote:
>>> Right-handed writing
>>> with a pen, though, is more easily done LTR, so that the letters are
>>> not hidden or smudged.
>>
>
>>Right, but Arabic and Hebrew, to use two examples of RTL, have long
>>used ink, forcing Arabs and Israelis to kind of "twist" their hand
>>to prevent smudging.  So, surely, switching to LTR would be extremely
>>useful for them.  So, why haven't they?  The left-brain/right-brain
>>theory makes sense to me.
>
>I don't think Arabs and Isrealis twist their hand. Rather, they
>'twist' (rotate actually) the surface they write on. I have seen
>children learning Arabic write Arabic _top to down_ but read it
>_right to left_.

That's very interesting.  I've been looking back at early writing systems
since this thread began and it seems to me that writing from _top to
bottom_ was generally the preferred way when people first started to write.

The Sumerians are credited as being the first to develop writing, some time
before 3000 BC, which eventually evolved into the various cuneiform
scripts.  Early cuneiform was written, using a stick with a wedge shaped
end (hence the name 'cuneiform' = "wedge shaped") on clay tablets in
vertical columns, from top to bottom - the columns themselves going from
right to left.   The clay tablets were more or less square.

Some time after 2800 BC the Semitic Akkadians took to using oblong tablets
in "landscape" orientation.  It seems the narrow side was taken to be the
old "top" and writing was turned around 90 degrees so that one began along
the top line writing from _left to right_, i.e. both the early style and
the later style kept a clockwise direction.

The same is true of Chinese writing.  The traditional style is from top to
bottom in columns from right to left.  But if you want the rows to be
horizontal rather than vertical, you rotate the page 90 degrees so that the
rightmost column becomes the topmost row, and your characters now go from
left to right.

Now, returning to the notion that when the Greeks started using some of the
letters as vowels this prompted them to change from writing RTL to writing
LTR, I think the lefthand/righthand side of the brain theory is weakened by
the fact that some peoples continued to keep to the RTL direction for
centuries *even though vowels were well established in their scripts*.  The
Etruscans have already been mentioned.  I've checked my sources again; I
can find no evidence for any LTR inscriptions.  AFAIK the Etruscans always
wrote RTL until their language became extinct in the 1st cent. AD.   Yet
the Etruscan alphabet certainly contained vowels.

The Oscan & Umbrians of Italy also continued to write RTL even tho their
alphabets also contained vowels.  The Oscan inscriptions & graffiti at
Pompeii, destroyed 79 AD, still maintain the RTL direction.

So why is the Roman script LTR?  This has far more, I'm sure, to do with
the fact that the Greeks wrote LTR when the Romans came in contact with
them, than it has to do with right & left sides of brains.  So why did the
Greeks change direction?

As it has been pointed out, they didn't change overnight.  Indeed, the
earliest Greek inscriptions are consistently RTL; then, as two or three
people have stated, they spent some time writing boustrophedon, i.e. the
1st and all subsequent odd numbered lines RTL and the intervening even
numbered lines LTR.

What caused the Greeks to hesitate about the direction of writing?

It must be remembered that the earliest form of Greek, Mycenaean Greek, was
not written in the Semitic alphabet at all, but in a syllabary developed
from an earlier, and as yet undeciphered, syllabary (we assume) used by the
pre-Greek Minoans.  The latter is known as Linear A and the subsequent
Greek syllabary as Linear B.  These were written LTR.  But it is clear from
the form of the scripts that it was designed to be painted on perishable
materials like papyrus or wood.  Indeed, one or two chance finds of these
symbols painted on pottery are known.

It seems these people also used clay to scratch on records which were
intended to be kept temporarily; the clay was not baked, but was probably
latter recycled.  The majority of our texts have come to light from the
chance that some palaces were burnt down and the clay records got baked!
But it is clear, the majority of Linear A writing is certainly lost for
ever and we see it as a developed script.  Its prehistory is gone.

Now, it seems to me not unlikely that the earliest syllabaries were written
vertically in columns from right to left, just like early cuneiform and
traditional Chinese.  Certainly the shape of the tablets discovered so far
would have the same effect as those of the Akkadians further east: it would
suggest rotating the writing so that the rightmost column becomes the top
row - so the script becomes LTR, as indeed it was.

Surely all this had been forgotten before the Greeks re-discovered writing
from the Phoenician Semites in the 8th cent. BC?  Not so.  The Cypriot
syllabary is certainly derived from the same source as the Linear A and
Linear B syllabries and it continued to be used at least until the 5th
cent. BC.   The Psychro inscription, which I gave on this list a month or
so back, contains three 'Linear' symbols and suggests that a syllabary was
still known, at least to some people, as late as the 3rd cent. BC.  In
other words, there was 'interference' from a pre-Semitic tradition of LTR
writing.

But to make matters even more complicated, the later Cypriot syllabary was
uniformally written RTL  :)
The syllabary certainly denoted vowels;  and here we have an example of an
vowelled script changing from LTR to RTL!

I suggest Phoenician influence.  Indeed, it seems likely that it was among
the mixed Greco-Phoenician trading settlements on that island that Greek
was first written in Phoenician characters, probably at first by Phoenician
scribes.  Those holding on to the old syllabary may well have thought that
the Phoenicians wrote in the "correct direction" and wrote their syllabary
accordingly.

But there is no reason to suppose this happened elsewhere, especially where
Phoenician influence was less marked and older traditions survived as, e.g.
in Crete.

The reason that the later Latin, Runic & Cyrillic scripts are written from
LTR cannot be for any other reason than that the Greeks came to write their
script that way.  And the Greeks were subject to two different writing
traditions and themselves changed only gradually.

I really can see no reason why they should not have continued the RTL
direction just as the Etruscans, Umbrians & Oscans did unless there was
some other influence; and I have suggested there was.

Why did the Phoenicians & other Semites write from RTL?  The origins of the
early Semitic alphabet are obscure and the subject of controversy; but it
seems most likely that it ultimately derives from some form of Egyptian
script. The earliest script, the hierogplyphic was normally written in
vertical columns. When written horizontally it was normally written RTL,
tho LTR is also found.  You tell which way the writing goes from the
direction of birds, animals &c.  :)

Certainly the later cursive forms, the hieratic and the later demotic, were
written RTL.  It would've been from such developments that the early
Semitic alphabet was evolved.  Why RTL?  I don't know.

None of my sources make it at all clear whether the early hieroglyphic
columns started from the right (as in Chinese and Sumerian) or the left.
If the columns went from left to right, then obviously when "the page is
turned" to give horizontal lines the characters will go from right to left.
If, on the other hand, the columns went right to left, were the ancient
Egyptians so used to the RTL direction that they simply followed that when
lines were ruled horizontally?

Do we have any Egyptologists on the list who can help us?

Hope this has at least given ideas for con-scripts & con-script histories  :-)

Ray.

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February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
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August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
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July 2005, Week 3
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July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
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June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
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May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 3
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April 2004, Week 1
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March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
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January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
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August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
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August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
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July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 3
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October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
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October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
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September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
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July 1999, Week 5
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July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
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May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
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March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
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September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 3

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