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AUXLANG  August 1999, Week 1

AUXLANG August 1999, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Machine translation and IALs~

From:

Kjell Rehnström <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:09:28 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (113 lines)

Marcos Franco wrote:
>
> Je Thu, 5 Aug 1999 02:44:20 +1000, Robin Gaskell
> <[log in to unmask]> skribis:
>
> >>    ........... I've got to
> >>say that I see nothing in Glosa, besides isolativeness, that makes me
> >>think its creators were thinking on MT when they developed (or
> >>reformed) it. This is a statement I simply don't believe, Robin.
> >>
> >*   Fascinating.
> >    The Glosa authors were working on it in 1977, when I met them: it is
> >unbelievable that two highly intelligent people were not aware of the
> >surrounding computer culture at that time.  That is quite apart from the
> >fact that they TOLD me that the language was being designed, by them, for
> >computer tractability.  What may be difficult to believe is that they had a
> >full understanding of where computer technology was then, or where it was
> >heading in the coming decades.
>
> Robin, I think that's quite different from being designed for Machine
> Translation. Computer tractability is certainly an amorphous concept.
> Electronic languages like BASIC or COBOL, etc, are computer tractable
> and that doesn't mean they are useful for MT.
>
> >>>   ... and we lose, because
> >>>narrow-minded bureaucrats can point to the DLT, and say 'Pivot Language'
> >>>translation schemes have been proved not to work.
> >>
> >>Well, I don't think such argument has any validity, but perhaps if
> >>it's enounced "a pivot language very similar to Esperanto has proven
> >>not to work properly" they are more close to reality.
> >>
> >*   I'd say all of history testifies to the non-imagination of the
> >Administrative Mind.  "No, 'pivots' are out!  I won't hear another word on
> >anything like the DLT!!" is my understanding of the working of the
> >reasoning powers of our political leaders.
>
> Certainly. All what they want is to be able to say "not" while keeping
> their appearance of honesty and wisdom, and DLT gives them that
> chance.
>
> >>>I suspect that such a process, without room for idosyncrasies of
> >>>expression, will be a little stultifying, not to say sterile.
> >>
> >>What do you mean?
> >>
> >*   I am getting the feeling that computer-generated UTL will be more
> >standardised than normal speech (or human-translated UTL), and is likely to
> >smoothe over the differences in character that come through in
> >ideosyncrassies of phraseology and rhythm of normal human speech.
>
> That's inevitable, my friend. If you want to conserve all subtleties
> of original text, you'll need a human translator (and even so...).
>
> >>>Having >PoS marking make things much more easy.
> >>>>
> >> Even if seen just from its
> >>technical applications, it's not a language for programmers, but for
> >>translators also.
> >>
> >*   Fairy Nuff.
> >    I was imagining that human translators had that <je ne sais qua>, which
> >block-headed computers lacked.
>
> Sorry, I've lost the sense of this piece of conversation.
>
> >>About PoS marking in Glosa, that's something I thought of when I had a
> >>look on it. But I found some difficulties when forming Glosa typical
> >>compounds (noun-pe, etc). Btw, the result (if realizable) would be
> >>very close to Espo (or Ido, etc) with greco-latin vocab.
> >>
> >*   Agreed: the Glosa system was developed withouut PoS markers, and iit
> >wouuld be a bit messy to try imposing them on the language.It still feels a
> >bit like you are prejudging the situation a bit.  I'd want to see the
> >preliminary trials of practiical testing, before making such a speciifiic
> >statement.
>
> I'd also like to see it, yes.
>
> >>>>>> Btw, do you know Dkcsac?
> >>Take it: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >*   Thanx, will contact him.
>
> (Hope my memory works well and he's the right guy)
>
> >>> the solitary word, or small
> >>>group of words, before a person's name is a "salutation"
> >>
> >>     Btw, how you say Ea "saluti" or "saluta", alone?
> >>
> >*   Number?  Saluta (sing. or Plur.    U Saluta         Plu Saluta
> >           [Salutation]   OR verb)    [A Salutation]   [(The) Salutations]
>
> Number? I clear up: Ea = Esperanta, that is: saluti = "to greet",
> saluta = "of greet" (ie, greet as adjective).
>
> >>>    Iso mi pa previo dice:-
> >>    (as I did previously say)
> >        [As I have said]
> >
> >>The same I had said?
> >>
> >*   Close.
>
> Mmm, just to please my curiosity, how would you translate "the same I
> had said"?
>
Lassa me testar:
Mi pa previo u iso pa dice.
 
?

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