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CONLANG  August 1999, Week 3

CONLANG August 1999, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Artyom Kouzminykh: Answes&proposal

From:

Artem Kouzminykh <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:11:23 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (171 lines)

[log in to unmask] wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/conlang/?start=29193
Christophe Grandsire wrote:

>         But then why do you use this adjective "natural"? It means
nothing! If
> you want a Romance conlang, use the adjective "Romance", not the
> adjective "natural", because what seems natural for you may be
unnatural
> for others.
>
I agree, I used a wrong word! Don't kill me for that:-(...


>         I agree that the distinction animate-inanimate is interesting
and more
> useful than the distinction masculine-feminine and even
> masculine-feminine-neuter. But why using mandatory endings for that?
> can't you use adjective like in English "male" and "female"?

I prefer to use mandatory endings in order to create a Romance conlang
(not IAl really). By the way endings -o and -a already indicates that
the word meens something animate, and which is important too - they
indicate the sex of this "something animate"!


>         The problem with your example is that it misses your goal.
Giving
> "patres" the same origin than "patro" vs. "matra" shows no neuter
gender
> for me. It is just like other languages where the masculine gender is
> the default one.

It shows! The ending -e IS (as I propose) the ending of neuter !
Therefore patre (ex.) is one of the parents, and patro - is father. The
neuter should be
 default gender.


>         The problem was not about necessity of tense or not, but
about the
> necessity of tense endings on verbs. If you want to have tense, why
not
> using auxiliaries, like spoken French that using "avoir+participe" for
> the past tense.

Using "have" for creating tenses is ridiculous even for Romance! What
_logical_ connection is between having something and (past) tense!

>         It is not because you don't see why imperative or infinitive
can be
> difficult for someone else that it cannot be! Ask a native Arab
knowing
> no other language and he will have much difficulties to understand
what
> is the infinitive. If you want a real IAL, you must take care of that
> and remember that there are NO universal categories in speech
(whatever
> others can have told you) apart maybe for the opposition between nouns
> and verbs (and sometimes it is not so easy to make). Moreover, you
used
> a bad example as imperative is not difficult. But mandatory tenses can
> be for speakers of Chinese.
>
>
>         But then it is not an IAL. Don't forget that a phonetic
writing is a
> condition sine qua non to define an IAL.

Sorry, saying that I didn't meant IAL, I meant just an artlang (of my
own).


>         Sorry but your judgement is meaningless. Who are you to
decide what is
> shocking or not? I am French, so I certainly can decide better than
you
> about Romance languages.

NOT ABOUT MY ROMANCE ARTLANG ! I meant only it!


>         But if you say you want a conlang for you, why do you say you
want an
> IAL? Those are two completely different things. A personal conlangs
> doesn't have any requirement of internationality or even regularity!

I understand that, but I still believe that IAL (good or bad...)can be
constracted  on a base of a romance artlang.


>         It is more important than you think. Often ununderstanding
between
> people speaking the same language come from different accentuations (I
> myself lived such case).

OK, but it is still possible to create rather simple accentuation rules
without  exclusion.


>
>         Not less necessary than gender-marked endings, plural endings
or
> tense-endings. Why having some and not the others.

Bec. cases are much seldom in contemporary world's langs than genders,
and genders are much rare than plural endings.

>
>         No need? But no need for whom? And if I want MY conlang that
fulfills
> MY aesthetic requirements? Stop talking as if you were talking for
> everybody. You're talking about your own preferences, that's all.

I was misuderstood.

> > 2) The second is "law" or "popular" speech, based on the first one,
but
> > grammatically strict as Esp-Ido, Novial etc. Well, "one grammatical
> > ending for one part of speech", no any cases of nouns and pronouns,
> > only 3 tenses (+participles, inf., imper.), perhaps a priori
> > auxiliaries, affixes and so on. It is "orthographical" lang, too.
This
> > conlang must really be created by simplifying the "noble" speech.
>
>         Here again, who needs it? What is your purpose?

I do. Fun (not creating peace on Earth).

> > 3) The third lang is the same that the 2) but this is strictly
> > "phonetical", regular and logical lang, as ex. Esp-o-Ido, so it can
be
> > proposed as an IAL, too.
> >
>
>         With such basis, I doubt it can be considered a candidate for
IAL.

Probably not such bad as Esp-o.

> > As I still don't see much difference between auxlang and conlang
lists,
> > so I send this letter to all lists just to be sure.

>         To give you an example, I myself created six languages (and
am in the
> state of creating a seventh one), with no intention at all to make
them
> IAL.
So do I!

>All I am interested in is about their beauty, through my own eyes.
So do I!

> And when I share what I do to the list, I don't ask them to like what
I
> do, but at least to find it interesting.
So do I!


Why are you so evil here? We're still samlistani (samlistanoj) if not
samideani. We have one hobby - conlangs. Don't be so unkind, I'm just a
novice and speak English quite bad. I don't even know that this IMHA
is! Somethimes I use wrong words and am being misunderstood.  Uff, an
IAL is really needed!

Artyom Kouzminykh

P.S. Sorry for my poor English - I have not any practice here!
P.P.S. Why is it the way it is?

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