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CONLANG  September 1999, Week 3

CONLANG September 1999, Week 3

Subject:

Re : Re: Tlvn, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius

From:

"From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:06:42 EDT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (100 lines)

Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 15/09/99 11:41:30  , Rob a =E9crit :

> I have a question regarding this subject. It is about two Lillooet (or
>  Lil'wat?) sentences:
>  - tl'ak ti-nk'yap-a             'the coyote goes'
japanese :
koyotsu wa iku : 'the coyote goes'

>  - nk'yap        ti-tl'ak-a              'the goer coyotes', 'he who goes=20
is=20
> a coyote'

japanese :
iku (no) wa koyotsu da : 'he who goes is a coyote'

>  tl'ak =3D coyote
>  nk'yap =3D go
>  ti- =3D realis
>  -a =3D 3rd person
> =20

koyotsu : coyote
iku : go
wa : topic
da : be =3D whatever person

>  When translating, I have to do strange things. I use the word 'goer' and =
a
>  verb 'to coyote'.

funny that : i do that with japanese and colloquial french too when i=20
topicalize.
you know what ? the whole trick in linguistics is to stick "-" at the right=20
spot.
i mean, if japanese had the brilliant idea to write "iku wa-koyotsu-da" and=20
"koyotsu wa-iku" instead of "iku wa koyotsu da" and "koyotsu wa iku",
then they would not tell verbs from nouns anymore.
the whole face of the earth changes for so little.

BTW , ultimate test is : "the hungry coyote goes". try that one and tell
us.

------
That doesn't feel good.
------
feels best to me.

-------
'To' coyote is not a verb.
------
indeed, it's a noun.
and i suggest "ti-" is not a verbal but a  topic tag
and "-a" is presentative/existential verb.

------
I must
>  verbalise it some way, like 'to be a coyote'.

je hoeft niet. just use it as a noun like in : 'to be a coyote' ;-)
does "to be" show the nature, the behaviour, the state, the
diet of our furry friend ?
please define in a few words the verb "to coyote".

 I see in the examples that
>  Lillooet does not need morphology or some other instrument to change verb=
s
>  into nouns and v.v..

english neither : hunt / hunt
"verb" and "noun" are beyond morphology.
i think we're not discussing the same topic.

and french is even better : it doesn't need morphem to topicalize !
"c'est mon p=E8re le pompier".=20
there is a nice french verb "to-be-my-father".
which means that french doesn't make any difference between
noun and verb. french beats everyone. the perfect ial, i tell you.

 That makes me think that Lillooet does not really
>  distinguish nouns from verbs.=20

now i know french and japanese don't either.
maybe we're all aliens creeping up the planet.
watch out.

>  Is my interpretation right? If yes, then Tom could be right.
>  What alternative interpretations are possible?
> =20
i dare not say.

>  I have to admit, I was shocked the first time I was this. I tried to
>  implement it into a conlang, but failed. It is too weird to me.
> =20
don't be afraid. that's only topicalization combined to
(well-marketed) alienating hyphenation.
american linguists are trained businessmen.
everything's BIG in america.

mathias

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