LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for SCUBA-L Archives


SCUBA-L Archives

SCUBA-L Archives


SCUBA-L@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SCUBA-L Home

SCUBA-L Home

SCUBA-L  September 1999, Week 4

SCUBA-L September 1999, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Training (Was Re: Reverse Profile?)

From:

David Strike <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scuba diving discussion list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:45:39 +1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (104 lines)

On 25 September 1999 17:46, Christian Gerzner wrote:
 
> > I don't know whether other Australians would agree with me?, (probably
not -
> > on principle!<BWG>), but in some respects the regulations and Codes of
> > Practice that govern diving (certainly those that apply in Queensland),
> > while seemingly well-intentioned, do *sometimes*  tend to work against
the
> > diving industry's best interests.
 
> > Not least is the fact that in an attempt to improve safety, they cosset
the
> > lowest common diving denominator and discourage people from either
> > learning - or retaining - valuable knowledge!  (I asked a certified
nitrox
> > diver just a couple of hours ago what the reccomended PPO2 limit was and
> > they couldn't even tell me what PPO2 meant!)  :-)
 
> Uhhh, Strike, you _really_ didn't expect me not to fall for that bait? :-)
 
Of course not! :-)
 
> i) The Queensland regs are quite possibly an indirect, if not direct,
> result of the "lowest common denominator factor" in the current standard
> of Scuba training witnessed in this country and elsewhere. I know,
> sweeping statement. I rather doubt that most on this Forum would disagree.
 
I actually don't have a problem with pitching diving education to the lowest
common denominator.  The problem - as I see it - is when governments attempt
to introduce regulations and codes of conduct on voluntary activities such
as diving.
 
Invariably based on protecting the weakest elements in society, such
regulations usually discourage the concept of accepting responsibility for
ones own actions and often leads to people unconsciously assigning such
responsibility to others - a state of affairs that, in diving, doesn't
exactly encourage or promote the need for continous education, or even an
elementary understanding of physics and physiology.
 
> ii) Then you gave me the perfect example "they couldn't even tell me
> what PPO2 meant!": Whilst I am _not_ nitrox certified I _do_ know what
> PPO2 means and entails. FUC 5.2, I even know how to calculate it.
Actually I knew >how to do this long before nitrox was thought of,
 
You do mean the use of nitrox for recreational diving, don't you?    :-)
 
>if only to learn (for myself) how to avoid OxTox territory.
 
Actually - unless you're talking about deep air diving - nitrogen narcosis
was/is probably the thing to be more concerned about.
 
> Actually I would have thought its not that hard, which only goes to show
> that some people should not be certified at *anything*. I consider that
> if I can do it, the majority should be able to do so.
 
> Sadly, currently the onus is on the Instructor to *certify* rather than
> *fail*, which includes certifying rather than failing _instructors_.
 
(although it's all relevant, I've snipped the rest for brevity)
 
> Then again, how much longer is this seeming deterioration in training
> standards, not just, it seems, in entry level standards, going to
continue?
>
> A nitrox "qualified" diver who doesn't even know what PPO2 means (leave
> alone, I would presume, how to calculate it?). How totally,
> ridiculously, absurd. I suggest that that diver's Nitrox Instructor
> could be criminally negligent if this person has a nitrox related
incident.
 
The immediate reaction of most of us, is to fault the Instructor or the
programme.  But I think it's a little more complex than that.  Because
recreational diving is a voluntary activity, it's a fair assumption on the
Instructor's part that people are taking a course because they have a real
interest in acquiring knowledge.
 
For many people that's not even a consideration!  They're there to meet
members of the opposite sex; overcome personal phobias; to challenge
themselves; to see fishes - whatever!   They'll absorb, (and be able to show
that they have), sufficient information  to pass the course - and then
promptly go and forget all about it!  Overlooking the fact that divers can
be sneaky, devious and cunning - or just plain thick! - they're no different
to other sectors of the community when it comes to retaining knowledge!
 
"Use it, or lose it!" is an apt comment.  Most of us tend to 'forget'
information that we're not required to use on a daily basis.  The problems
arise, however, when a person holding a valid 'for life' certification card
presents themselves as qualified to do certain
types of diving - such as the use of nitrox.
 
While they might have absorbed exactly what was required of them to pass the
course, their actual interest in the subject may have been slight.  They
either haven't bothered to maintain or improve their knowledge levels;  or
they're conceited enough to believe that they've retained what they were
taught; it may even have been two or more years since they completed a
course,or last used nitrox.  As a consequence they have a card that
proclaims them to be
trained - and a knowledge level that suggests otherwise!
 
To suggest that the Instructor is at fault is - to my of thinking - a load
of cobblers!  :-)
 
Strike

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

September 2016, Week 2
June 2016, Week 1
April 2016, Week 1
March 2015, Week 3
March 2015, Week 2
February 2015, Week 1
August 2014, Week 1
July 2014, Week 5
July 2014, Week 4
July 2014, Week 2
February 2014, Week 4
January 2014, Week 3
June 2013, Week 4
June 2013, Week 1
May 2013, Week 3
May 2013, Week 1
April 2013, Week 3
April 2013, Week 2
March 2013, Week 1
February 2013, Week 2
April 2012, Week 4
April 2012, Week 2
April 2012, Week 1
March 2012, Week 4
February 2012, Week 4
February 2012, Week 1
January 2012, Week 3
December 2011, Week 3
December 2011, Week 2
November 2011, Week 5
November 2011, Week 4
November 2011, Week 3
November 2011, Week 1
October 2011, Week 4
October 2011, Week 3
September 2011, Week 3
September 2011, Week 1
August 2011, Week 3
August 2011, Week 2
August 2011, Week 1
July 2011, Week 2
July 2011, Week 1
June 2011, Week 4
June 2011, Week 3
June 2011, Week 2
May 2011, Week 5
May 2011, Week 4
April 2011, Week 4
April 2011, Week 3
April 2011, Week 2
April 2011, Week 1
March 2011, Week 5
March 2011, Week 3
February 2011, Week 4
February 2011, Week 3
February 2011, Week 2
January 2011, Week 4
January 2011, Week 3
January 2011, Week 1
December 2010, Week 2
November 2010, Week 5
November 2010, Week 4
November 2010, Week 3
November 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 3
October 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 1
September 2010, Week 4
September 2010, Week 3
September 2010, Week 2
September 2010, Week 1
August 2010, Week 5
August 2010, Week 4
August 2010, Week 3
July 2010, Week 4
July 2010, Week 2
June 2010, Week 4
June 2010, Week 3
June 2010, Week 2
May 2010, Week 3
April 2010, Week 4
April 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 5
March 2010, Week 4
March 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 2
March 2010, Week 1
February 2010, Week 3
December 2009, Week 4
December 2009, Week 1
November 2009, Week 2
November 2009, Week 1
October 2009, Week 4
October 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 2
August 2009, Week 4
August 2009, Week 3
August 2009, Week 2
July 2009, Week 4
July 2009, Week 3
July 2009, Week 1
June 2009, Week 4
June 2009, Week 3
May 2009, Week 3
March 2009, Week 4
March 2009, Week 1
February 2009, Week 2
January 2009, Week 4
December 2008, Week 4
December 2008, Week 3
December 2008, Week 2
December 2008, Week 1
November 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
November 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager