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AUXLANG  September 1999, Week 5

AUXLANG September 1999, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Martinet dismissed from IALA

From:

"Donald J. HARLOW" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:01:19 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (100 lines)

Je 04:41 ptm 9/29/99 -0700, charles skribis
 
>I must apologize for not just looking up the word ...
>too lazy, I just guess and 99% of the time it works fine.
>I assumed since Chris had a problem with it, he looked it up.
>
>So now I look it up... in the Interlingua dictionary: "DISMISS dimitter"
>Now I also find, and this is interesting: "DISCHARGE ... (dismiss)=
 dimitter;
>
>So it appears to be an understandable confusion that any IA-ist
>will fall prey to, because Gode admitted DUAL STEMS to his language.
>This cannot happen in Occidental, which uses a better
>system to find the actual, living international roots,
>rather than Gode's artificial and mysterious "prototypes".
>
>In Occidental "demisset" just means dismissed, past participle.
>The Occ/German has entlassen which means in English (to) dismiss,
>(to) discharge. The Occ word is demisser. Whereas, to resign
>in Occidental is: renunciar, resignar, abdicar, abstener-se
>and the German word is entsagen, which in English means:
>to renounce, to waive.
 
This makes yet another nifty demonstration of the dangers of borrowing=20
forms without paying any attention to meanings. If "demisser" in Occidental=
=20
means "to dismiss" or "to discharge", it is going to lead any French- or=20
Spanish- speaker who reads it wildly astray.
 
French:
 
de'mission n.f. Acte par lequel on SE de'met d'une fonction, d'un emploi=20
(emphasis mine)
 
Comes from verb de'mettre v.t. De'placer de sa position naturelle, en=20
parlant d'un membre. [Secondary meaning] Destituer, re'voquer.
 
(From the Petit Larousse)
 
Spanish:
 
dimisio'n, f. resignation (from post). -- dimitir, vt. to resign, give up=20
(post).
 
(From the pocket version of the Appleton-Cuyas=20
Spanish-English/English-Spanish Dictionary).
 
For the record, Esperanto:
 
demisi/i (ntr). Abdiki (pp elektitaj regantoj, a=FD nomitaj oficistoj).
 
(Plena Ilustrita Vortaro)
 
But perhaps I condemn Occidental too quickly. In the quote referred to, the=
=20
passage in question is
 
>   "...que il demisset de su oficie"
 
... by which demisset is _not_ a past participle, as you state, but a past=
=20
tense verb (if I remember correctly, this failure to distinguish between=20
the form of the past tense and the past participle is one of Occidental's=20
not-so-few flaws as an IAL candidate). The form indicates that it is an=20
intransitive verb, and that, whatever it means, it was Martinet who did it=
=20
and not somebody else who did it to him.
 
 
 
-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/
(English version: http://www.webcom.com/~donh/dona.html)
 
Mikaelo Gi=FEpling, Kanto pri Donki=B6otoj, nun legeblas (Latin-3) =E6e
   http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/kanto_pri_donkihxot=
=20
http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/kanto_pri_donkihxotoj.=
=20
html
a=FD Unikode =E6e
   http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/kanto_pri_donkihxot=
=20
http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/kanto_pri_donkihxotoju=
=20
.html
 
Mikaelo Bron=FEtejn, Avinjo Jeanne, nun legeblas (Latin-3) =E6e
   http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/avinjo_jeanne.html
a=FD Unikode =E6e
   http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/avinjo_jeanneu.html
 
Mikaelo Bron=FEtejn, Verdaj karavanoj, nun legeblas (Latin-3) =E6e
  =
 http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/verdaj_karavanoj.html
a=FD Unikode =E6e
  =
 http://www.best.com/~donh/Esperanto/Literaturo/Poezio/verdaj_karavanoju.htm=
l

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