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CONLANG  September 1999, Week 5

CONLANG September 1999, Week 5

Subject:

Re: THEORY: irregular conlangs

From:

"Thomas R. Wier" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:31:22 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (164 lines)

Daniel Andreasson wrote:

> Hejsan allihopa. (Hello.)
>
> In Sociolinguistics class today we had a discussion
> about irregular forms in languages. You know, strong
> verbs and adjectives, etc. "Go, went, gone".
> "Good, better, best". Obviously it is the most
> frequent verbs and adjectives that are irregular.
> The question is why. We got the explanation that
> because they are so frequent, you can produce it
> faster if it is a lexeme rather than a conjugation.

This is one of those arguments that seems great on the
surface, but it fails to explain a lot of things in rather
fundamental ways.  For example, if economy of production
is so important, why would there be any advantage of
having "was/were" over *"beed"?  The irregular forms
that are attested in the modern language, just in terms of
the number of syllables needed to be produced, are
identical:  "was" and "were" are monosyllables, just as
*"beed" would be.  Indeed, when children first comprehend
morphology, their tendency is to take the dental suffix and
stick it *everywhere* -- so that you get "beed", "seed", etc.
The tendency is to remove irregularities if possible -- and
occasionally this does occur to even high frequency words
(e.g., In Chaucer's time, the past tense of "help" was "holp",
and only later acquired the dental suffix -ed, making it regular).

The best answer to this question is that language is not an
isolated system: it's a social system that exists in a social
context, including temporal artifacts of earlier periods.
Wittgenstein said it best (and I am heavily paraphrasing
here):  language is like an ancient town, with remnants of
the most ancient buildings and structures, crooked alleyways,
eclectic architecture from every period it's been through.
Of course, as time goes on, some of those buildings and
aspects of the city will decay and collapse, making way for
new paradigms of architecture in the city.  The city, though,
is intimately linked to the people living in it -- as is language.
It lives or dies in a direct relation to the life of the inhabitants
(language users).

(I know, I know, that kinda sounds like an evasion -- the
problem is there is no one simple answer, but see below.)

> It seems to me that there should be some correlation
> between frequency and irregularity.

If there is, it is that in the social context of the person learning
the language, there is a need to learn the remnants of older
periods of language use, because those remnants are still used,
albeit no longer in any systematic way.

For example, there was a period when the vowel gradations we
see in many English verbs (e.g., sing - sang - sung) was a regular
process of derivation, something roughly analogous to the way
Hebrew works today.  But as time went on, new paradigms
came into being -- the most important one being the Germanic
languages' development of a dental suffix (called "dental", because
it always was articulated at the teeth, whether a /t/ or /d/).  This
development basically blew the old ablaut vowel gradations
out of the water, as productive processes go, because it was,
for them, perceived to be easier to suffix something rather than
change the internal structure of the root.  Nonetheless, the old
system didn't just disappear:  all new verbs that were created
acquired the new ending, but the old retained their previous
system side-by-side the new one, in an uneasy harmony.  As
I said above, sometimes the old system was, for individual verbs,
leveled out by the new suffixing system, but this remained, and
remains, a scattered, haphazard process.

> Anyway. My two questions. What do you guys think
> of this? And do you do this in your conlangs?
> AFAIK, in most languages the copula verb is
> irregular, but most conlangs seem to be very regular.

Well, not all natural languages have a copula (Chinese
doesn't).  In those that do, there's nothing inherent in the
system making it more likely to be irregular in the way
I've described.  Japanese, for instance, has two (2)
irregular verbs (although whether one was a copula, and
whether Japanese even has a copula, escapes me).

And, speaking of regularities in general, Quechua regularly
applies the plural suffix -kuna to derive plural pronouns:
they have none of this mincing about with grammaticalized
"I" but "we", "he" but "they":

     =F1oqa 'I'
     qam 'you (singular)'
     pay 'he/she'
     =F1oqayku 'we (excl.)'
     =F1oqanchik 'we (incl.)'
     qamkuna 'you (plural)'
     paykuna 'they'

(Thanks to Mark Rosenfelder, wherever he is, for his page
on Quechua grammar.)

> Am I right or wrong? I know many of you (as I once)
> want an extremely logical language, one that you
> have to invent because there aren't any logical
> natlangs. But those of you who persue a natlangy
> touch of your conlang, how far do you go in your
> irregularities?

The best way to make your language look really naturalistic is
to layer regular systems over one another.  This can be just like
I described for English above, just within one category of words
like verbs, or it could be for pit the semantic makeup of words
against, say, their phonetic form. So, for example, my language
Phaleran used to be completely regular with its morphology,
until equally regular phonetic changes came along causing
blurring of the original patterns:

'dominion, kingdom, state'

                      Case ending    singular       plural
Nominative    (none)              phai=FEar      phai=FEarna
Accusative     -i                     phai=FEari      phai=FEarnai
Dative           -uo                   phai=FEaruo   phai=FEarnawo
                                                               (<
*phai=FEarnauo)
Benefactive   -(e)s                 phai=FEares    phai=FEarn=E2s
                                                               (<
*phai=FEarnaes)
Instrumental   -(e)nto             phai=FEarento phai=FEarn=E2nto
                                                               (<
*phai=FEarnaento)
Durative        -(e)k=FB              phai=FEarek=FB  phai=FEarn=E2k=FB
                                                               (<
*phai=FEarnaek=FB)
Abessive       -(e)=FE=FEa            phai=FEare=FE=FEa phai=FEarn=E2=FE=FE=
a
                                                               (<
*phai=FEarnae=FE=FEa)

(You can see that here:
<http://www.angelfire.com/tx/eclectorium/phaleramorpho.html#nominalmorpho=
>

and you can see an example of where the inflectional system has
undergone further changes from the original Proto-Phaleran in
Phaleran's pronominal system:

<http://www.angelfire.com/tx/eclectorium/phaleramorpho.html#pronouns> )


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Tom Wier <[log in to unmask]>
ICQ#: 4315704   AIM: Deuterotom
Website: <http://www.angelfire.com/tx/eclectorium/>
"Cogito ergo sum, sed credo ergo ero."

Denn wo Begriffe fehlen,
Da stellt ein Wort zur rechten Zeit sich ein.
   -- Mephistopheles, in Goethe's _Faust_
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
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August 2006, Week 5
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July 2006, Week 5
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July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
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May 2006, Week 5
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May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
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February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
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January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
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August 2005, Week 1
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July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
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May 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 3
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May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
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February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
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January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
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October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
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March 2004, Week 3
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February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
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September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
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September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
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August 2001, Week 3
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July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
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November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
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October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
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October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
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September 1999, Week 1
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July 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
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April 1999, Week 1
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
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November 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 1
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October 1998, Week 3
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