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CONLANG  November 1999, Week 1

CONLANG November 1999, Week 1

Subject:

[elfling] Re: Conlang T Shirt - Quenya

From:

Brook Conner <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:56:59 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (75 lines)

Ales Bican writes:

[...]

 > > I guess I was thinking that the usage there was as a declarative,
 > > i.e., in the nominative case, as in English, "Here! I am going to live
 > > here." If "sinome" is *not* being used this way by King Elessar, then
 > > (as suggested) it is the direct object. Either "sinome" is *never
 > > declined*, or "mar-" does not use accusative for direct object (a
 > > lesser irregularity) or there's an error in the text (as "sinome"
 > > should have a long vowel at the end: "sinomee").
 >
 > **There certainly is not any error in the text.

Yes, that part lacked the requisite :-)

 > Tolkien had to (and did)
 > revise it many times.
 > It's all about it that accusative is same as nominative, both had no
 > case ending (this is a state of later usage of Quenya, earlier there was
 > a difference between nom. and acc. - the latter had e.g. in sg. long
 > vowel, if any).

That's my understanding.

 > > Me, I prefer to interpret the King as being pompous (as kings are wont
 > > to be, especially in legend)
 >
 > **I don't think so. Of course it's a bit pompous sentence: "In this place
 > I will abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world", but I think he
 > used correct Q (though, I know, Nuumenoreans sometimes misinterpreted
 > it).

Of course, he could be speaking correct Q and still stating a rather
pompous sentence :-) So we're again in violent agreement :-)

 > The truth is, however, which one of us is able to ask Tolkien about it?

Damn, I forgot my necroscope at home :-)


[...]

 > **It's possible that _sinome_ is declined as nouns. Thus, as you
 > write, *_sinomesse_ and *_sinomello_ (*"from here") could be,
 > though we can't be sure.

Agreed - we can't be sure, lacking an attested, declined version of
"sinome". I think it makes logical sense, though.


 > In the sentence that was here first to be translated I'd use _sinome_
 > without any ending. _Sinome_ was translated "in this place", but
 > lit. it's rather "this place" - it certainly contains the stem SI "this,
 > here, now" (LR:385) and very probable *_nome_ meaning *"place".
 > (_Siimen_ undouptedly is a compound of the stems SI and MEN
 > "place, spot" (LR:371).)

Yep - and with Ro'men being declined, well.... to me that lends
credence to an argument that sinome is declined as well.


[...]

Brook

---------
The Hacker Tarot, Arcanum #13, Death: A skeleton weilding a scythe
surveys a field, on which are scattered PDP-11s, Apple ]['s, IBM
360/91's, Xerox Alto's, and many other machines.

---------
Fancy. Myth. Magic.
http://www.concentric.net/~nellardo/

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