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CONLANG  November 1999, Week 1

CONLANG November 1999, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Quenya phrase (was Re: RV: Translations [Conlang T Shirt])

From:

FFlores <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:36:19 -0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (49 lines)

Brook Conner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Why does the "lambelya" move between "nai" and "maruva"? I was under
> the impression that Quenya, while generally being SVO, was rather
> flexible about word order.

Well, then why not?

> Further, I still am not satisfied with "sinome" not being declined.
>=20
> It's a noun, not a pronoun - "here" doesn't need an antecedent.  It is
> specifying the location of the action named by the verb. If we
> replaced "sinome" with "Ro'men" - the East, a location - what would
> happen?

I fail to understand your point. _Sinome_ is an adverb! If you
actually want to say 'in this place', you say _sina nomesse_
(or whatever word for 'place' in the locative case). But 'here'
is already locative. I guess that ablative and allative case
still do have to be marked, _sinomello_ and _sinomenna_, but
I'm sure *_sinomesse_ is redundant. Even without possessing
all published material, I'd bet anything against the possibility
that it's attested somewhere; while OTOH we *have* an attested
example of undeclined _sinome_ which you have worked into a
weird vocative... In King Elessar's words,

        Sinome maruvan

I don't see any comma, or exclamation point, or the vocative
particle _=E1_, or anything that could indicate it's a vocative.


> The example from King Elessar, either it's a vocative phrase: "Here!"
> or it's the direct object, in which case others have indicated it may
> not be declined simply because the DO was not always declined to the
> accusative.

In Book Quenya (older literary form) the accusative was marked,
lengthening the last vowel in the singular, and changing the
normal plural -(vowel)r to -(vowel)i, as H. Fauskanger explains.
In spoken Quenya, accusative wasn't marked at all. I ask you again,
what is _sinome_ supposed to be DO of? _Sinome maruvan_ is, for all
we know, an intransitive phrase, 'Here I will dwell', not a transitive
one 'This place I will inhabit' or something of the sort.


--Pablo Flores
  http://draseleq.conlang.org/pablo-david/

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