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AUXLANG  November 1999, Week 2

AUXLANG November 1999, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Accents and POS marking

From:

"Leo J. Moser" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 13 Nov 1999 09:49:52 PST

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (287 lines)

These are, I believe, very wise comments.
                             LEO
 
 
On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:53:37 +0100, Kjell
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rehnstr=F6m?= wrote:
 
> I shall talk about Interlingua that I know best. I think that
comparisons=
> with
> Occidental can be made when necessary. =
>
>
> The most frequent verb forms in Interlingua are probably the present and
=
> the
> past. If so, the verb forms that the reader will most often see are such
> ending in -a, -e, -i and in -ava -eva -iva. In Interlingua grammar I am
d=
> oing
> - at present for my own use but I shall test it on others and see if
they=
> like
> it, and if so I shall contact a publisher and put it on the net. In it I
=
> use
> the verbal present/imperative stem. So a verb like _live(s)_ will appear
=
> as
> _'habita_ (which gives the reader the information that the accent is on
t=
> he
> first syllable in the present tence and in the imperative. In
conventiona=
> l
> dictionaries the Interlinguan will have to read on and go to a note (if
i=
> t is
> there) to indicate the stress in other forms than the infinitive that
alw=
> ays
> falls on an -r syllable.
>
> I will have a chapter of _how to decide which ending_. Often you can do
t=
> hat
> starting from an international word in Swedish: _demonstration_ gives
the=
>
> Interlingua verb _demonstra_. _inskription_ is without a vowel so the
ver=
> b is
> probably an -e verb: scribe. _audition_ (which we have borrowed from
Engl=
> ish)
> stems from a verb _audi_ (hear(s)).
>
> Le professora demonstra le scientia de su marito. =
>
> Le svedese scribe un epistola al anglese.
> Un sami audi le sonitos del natura. =
>
>
> In principle both Interlingua and Occidental can use to ways of POS
marki=
> ng.
> By the place in the sentence and by the words surrounding the verb or
the=
>
> noun. I must honnestly say that I have never had any problems understand
=
> what
> is verb noun or adjective in interlingua. And remember that I am NOT a
na=
> tive
> speaker of a Romance language. I have used lots of energy to try to
learn=
>
> Latin, to be able to read French (in school) and Spanish (of my own free
=
> will
> - so I am more at home in Spanish - reading). =
>
>
> But back to Interlingua. There is no difficulty to guess if I would use
t=
> he
> words in the examples above as verbs (just experimentwise as they have
no=
>
> meaning as such:)
>
> Le demonstra professora le scientia de su marito.
> Le marito scientia le professora de su demonstra.
> Le scribe svedese le epistola al italiano.
> Le audi sami le sonitos del natura.
>
> In the sentences above _professora, scientia, svedese, sami_ would be
ver=
> bs,
> and that is quite obvious, whereas le demonstra, marito, scribe, audi_
wo=
> uld
> be nouns. They are marked as such by their position in the sentence and
t=
> he
> words surrounding them. =
>
>
> As for accents in Occidental I dont think they have to be used even in
-i=
> ta
> and -ite except for dictionaries and teaching texts. In Swedish we have
a=
> word
> that means _carried_ if it pronounced with the tonic stress (grave
accent=
> ,
> accent 2) and _the cage_ if pronounced using the _one-syllable stress_.
(=
> acute
> accent, accent 1). Mostly you will know what the word means. =
>
>
> (Back in the seventies I read a book by the celebrated Swedish writer
Per=
>
> W=E4stberg (Sp) entitled _Luftburen_. and at first I understood it as
_Ca=
> rried
> by the air_ but later on I realized that the correct understanding was
_T=
> he
> Air Cage_ and so the title was rendered in the English translation!)
>
> I don't think Occidental will run such hasards if one drops the accents!
>
> Cause if you use accents in ordinary writing then the learner does not
on=
> ly
> have to remember that when a word is a noun ending in this or that way
it=
> has
> to have stress. But he also has to remember to put the mark. =
>
>
> Questions: Is the fact that you have to put accents over some words in
Sp=
> anish
> making it easier for the castillanos to write them, or does it mean that
=
> the
> correct putting of accentuation marks also shows whether you are
"educate=
> d" or not?
>
> Fusion between Occidental and Interlingua
> When the Occidental people are publishing a magazine which is bigger and
> better than that of Panorama in Interlingua, and if both then publish an
> equally good weekly, on sale in all places where your favorite magazinse
=
> are
> sold, the two languages will make a fusion, whatever purists and
academic=
> ians
> will say. =
>
>
> In Russian for instance, stress can fall anywhere. There are rules, but
t=
> o be
> able to stress exactly in Russian makes you a good speaker of Russian.
If=
> you
> don't it will always show you are not a Russian. But they don't have
acce=
> nt
> marks. Guess why. Because it would be too difficult.
>
> When I began learning Interlingua I cam across some opinions of Gode's
th=
> at I
> found very repulsive, but as I thought the language was fine, I didn't
mi=
> nd.
> Then when I came out into the net and read a lot of things the enemies
of=
>
> Interlingua wrote about Gode this was still no problem, because that was
=
> a
> religios war and nothing to do with langauges. Because if the Devil
himse=
> lf
> had made Interlingua and then left it, I wouldn't care less. What
mattere=
> d to
> me, and stil does matter, is how I think the language works. =
>
>
> Let ut, for discussion's sake imagine that a professor Profesorski
invent=
> s an
> international language called _demoglossa_ and if we suppose that I
think=
> it
> is very good, every person with a highschool education or those who have
=
> gone
> through the comprehensive school in the countries of the European Union
c=
> an
> understand the language and learn it in a very short time. I would then
n=
> ot
> abandon such a language just because professor Profesorski was a
paedophi=
> le,
> abused his wife and was a shoplifter, a racialist and a rapeist,
provided=
> that
> his language was good. =
>
>
> People, even in South America are still Christians despite the fact that
=
> the
> first Christians there murdered and killed and raped in the name of God
> allmighty. And from a Christian point of view we could say that the
nucle=
> us
> was good, and that people could see this despite the fact that the first
> propagators were sinners, who hopefully were fried in Purgatory for a
dea=
> sent
> time before entering paradize. =
>
>
> Or the other way around. If we have better alternatives, should we then
> embrace an insufficient langauge only because its inventor was a very
nob=
> le
> man who wanted any kind of luck for the whole Humanity? And I say again.
=
> No,
> what counts is the langauge. If I think the language is good, then OK,
by=
> all
> means. But if it is bad, then it doesn't matter that the author was the
M=
> other
> Theresa of auxiliary languages!
>
> So when they try, in some quarters, to attribute one or other bad
feature=
> to
> the authors of their language competitors, that is religious warfare,
and=
>
> should not impress the really thinking audience. What counts is the
langu=
> age
> itself, how easy it is, if it makes what the propagators say it does. If
=
> it
> doesn't deliver, then drop it, as one would do with a car that doesn't
me=
> et
> one's demands.
>
> On the other hand: If the author were a Mother Theresa of auxliary
langua=
> ges
> and the language itself were quite fantastic. Then, BINGO!
>
> Filosoficmen/Philosophicamente
 
Leo J. Moser
[log in to unmask]
 
 
 
 
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