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AUXLANG  November 1999, Week 2

AUXLANG November 1999, Week 2

Subject:

International? Was: Interlingua - Asian

From:

"Robert J. Petry, C.L." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:19:53 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (69 lines)

Chris Burd wrote:
 
> [kut]
 
> This is an important point, because it means that, if you
> choose your "other" vocabulary (function words + words without
> strong international forms) from the Romance language, you'll
> have something that even a moderately educated Romance
> speaker will find useful even at first sight, whereas,
> if you filled out the vocabulary with Germanic or Slavic words,
> the resulting mix would still accessible only educated Germans
> or Russians.
>
> So the ultra-Romance strategy creates a language that
> has *some* immediate use, before a large user community
> has been established. It's a way of getting the
> ball rolling. That's Martinet's reasoning.
 
[kut]
I'm enjoying this thread quite a bit. Here's a thought about word selection that de Wahl explained early on in some very good
articles.
Occidental, like ILa is based largely on the Romance language international forms. However, as everyone knows, there are more words
in Occ from other languages as a base vocabulary than ILa. Why was this?
 
The interesting thing to me is his, again to me, simple and to the point reasoning. I never thought of this till reading his
explanation. Not only are the "majority" of "international" words "romance" based, but, and here seems to be where de Wahl diverts
from some, or all the other IAL's in vocabulary construction. He found that each language, major Western languages, and some
others, that were not romance, had also contributed to the "international word" base. How? By categories. A certain language
contributed  primarily words for marine and naval topics. Another had contributed heavily to the "sports" vocabulary, etc. So, he
chose these words that were not romance because of their "international" specialized vocabulary. He lists several categories with
the language for each source. This then, partially explains his use of words beyond the romance base in Occ.
 
Other languages may have also built their vocabularies with this in mind. But, I have never seen this side of vocabulary building
discussed. Also, as a further thought, this is where Oriental words would enter into Occidental's vocabulary. ALL oriental words
used internationally would be accepted and used in Occ. But, words would not be used "ad lib" so to speak, just to have a mix of
Occidental and Oriental material.
 
Finally, Occ is constructed on this premise: It is constructed with *international* words, not national or regional word.
International words. Thus, it does not matter what language group the vocabulary "comes" from. They are "international" or they are
not. So, in a sense, it is a "misdirection" to discuss whether such and such an IAL is only for such and such Limited world
language group. What does 'International" imply? Does it imply only European speakers talking and writing across their language
barriers? If so, then that is "limited international" communication. To me "international" implies "worldwide-international", not a
communication across two or three languages barriers. Occidental uses "international" words, words in use with as wide a base as
possible. This means that even the Oriental who is doing communication with other parts of the world would/could use Occidental
because it is "international". Chinese is not "international" in that sense. We do not find it being used outside the Orient on a
world scale as we do English, for example. Yet, English is in fact more limited in its international scope than is Occidental.
 
Anyway, just some thots.
 
Think "international" not "national" or "regional" or "language groupings" and then, it seems to me, a more correct understanding
and application of what an IAL should be comes clearer. Think, what words are truly international, not what romance, german,
Chinese word is being used internationally. For, once a word truly becomes "international" it is in reality no longer a romance,
german, french, chinese, etc. word. It may have a lineage back to one of those groups, but it no longer is a "romance" word. It is
"international", i.e. used by many to most to all other language groups. And, the closer it is to being used by all the closer it
is to being the "pure" international language.
 
If we were to forget about the "labeling" of vocabularies by national groups, and only sought the real "international" words, then
we would end up with the "golden ring". Today, in my mind, Occidental comes the closest for it is built with the premise of using
"international" words, not with building a vocabulary from selected languages with no reason at all. International
words/roots/affixes are the most used, and, that is what Occidental is based on. It is not limited to ancient Latin and south
romance languages, or a smattering of this and that from other languages outside latin and romance. This is why, in spite of some
people's personal preferences, de Wahl did not leave out the slavic languages and german and others. It just so happens these words
are "international" or as close to international as it is possible to get with the resources he had available to him in his day.
Today, with computers, etc. we can add a more international vocabulary to what is missing in Occidental. But, the grammar and
affixes, etc. are the key to make it work. That should not be changed.
 
Cordialmen,
Bob, x+O~

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