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AUXLANG  November 1999, Week 2

AUXLANG November 1999, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Interlingua - Asian

From:

"Leo J. Moser" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:51:57 PST

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (118 lines)

Greetings,
 
Some of those following this thread may be interested in
Ed Robertson's translation of this same excerpt into Dunia,
a globally-derived language.
 
Dunia translation:
 
  > Al sol decir wa: wo nomin es sol. Wo ochen chamkila. Wo salir zai
  > shark, dan dotoki wo salir, sotoki tag. Wo mirar jing ni window
  > yong wo okul chamkila ru aurum, dan wo decir ni dotoki wakat es
  > bahwa ni levantar. Wo decir ni wa: Ya sust ren, levantar ba. Wo
  > chamkila bu agar ni permanecer dormir zai bed, tetapi agar ni poder
  > levantar dan trabajar, agar ni leer dan pasear.
 
On         Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:02:11 -0500, Chris Burd wrote:
 
> Don wrote (replying to someone else (Leo Moser?):
 
The following sentence WAS from me.   LEO
 
> > >The point was to show that the use of nonEuropean roots
> > >would lead to a loss of recognizability for everyone,
> > >and gain little for Asians.
> >
> > Problem is that Gode's argument is fallacious because he addresses only
one
> > point of the entire complex that goes into defining a language --
> > recognizability of vocabulary (for a limited subset of humanity:
> > well-educated Westerners) -- and ignores all others...
 
Yes. That is a very common failing, IMO.
 
> There's nothing fallacious about his argument; it's just that it
> addresses a single point, not the whole range of points that
> you are interested in.
 
The arguement is far from silly IMO. The methodology used
in root selection is, however, the problem that I see.
It is too random. Random choice from all the languages of
Europe would lead to something very hard to fathom as well.
 
> > From my point of view, in the long run it doesn't really matter to > the
ultimate user=20
> > whether a single source language (e.g. English) contributes the
> > vocabulary,
> > or it is proportionally taken from all the languages of the world. >
There are other, more important factors to consider.
 
What are these?
 
> That's your view, but I don't think it was Zamenhof's. If it had been,
> Esperanto would have ended up on the interlinguistic junk heap
> with Sol-re-sol. Apart from the "logical languages", which are
> a different kettle of fish, there's long been general agreement
> that a practical IAL will have a Romance bias,
 
The word "bias" may seem to suggest some "preference system."
That many Greco-Latinate words would be found to exist
in wide distribution in the languages of the world today,
is a more neutral way of understanding the situation IMO.
 
> due to the character
> of the most widely distributed international vocabulary. The
> disgreement between semi-naturalists (like Esperantists) and ultra-
> naturalists (like Interlinguists) is over the degree of this bias.
>
> > "Le sol dice: 'Io me appella sol. Io es multo brillante. Io me leva al
est,
> > e quando io me leva, il es die. Io reguarda per tu fenestra con mi
oculo
> > brillante como le auro, e io te dice quando il es tempore a levar te. E
 
> > te dice: "Pigro, leva te. Io non brilla a fin que to resta al lecto a
> > dormir, sed que tu te leva e labora, que tu lege e que tu te
promena."'"
> >
> > Chris Burd's translation, for comparison, read:
> >
> > "Le sol dice: Mi nomine es sol. Io es multo brillante. Io me leva in le
> > est, e quando io me leva, il es die. Io regarde per tu fenestra con mi
> > oculos tanto brillante como le aure, e io te dice quando il es tempore
a
> > levar te. E io te dice: Pigro, leva te. Io non brilla a fin que tu
resta
> > dormiente in lecto, ma a fin que tu va levar te e
> > laborar e que tu va leger e ambular."
> >
> > Most differences between the two would appear to be normal "choice"
> > differences between two different and equally legitimate ways of
expressing=
> >
> > the same thing. Two of them would, I would guess, be due to typos in
Pei's=
> >
> > presentation ("reguarda" instead of "regarde" -- though there might be
some=
> >
> > question about the ending -- and "to" instead of "tu"). [...]
>
> I'm more guilty of typos here than Pei. 'Auro' and 'reguarda' are correct.
> However, anyone familiar with my English-language postings
> will note that they too are typo-ridden. The sad thing is that
> I'm a professional writer and editor - but I always get someone
> else to proofread my stuff.    Cheers,           Chris
 
Regards to all,              LEO
 
Leo J. Moser
[log in to unmask]
 
 
 
 
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December 1997, Week 5
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