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AUXLANG  December 1999, Week 1

AUXLANG December 1999, Week 1

Subject:

Why Occidental is an unfit IAL...

From:

Roland Hoensch <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:16:01 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (202 lines)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
 
------=_NextPart_000_014B_01BF3BE5.1196AC60
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Occidental, the very name meaning "western(er)".  The language that,
even if its creators were Buddhist holy men exiled from Communist China,
today seems best describable as a pidginized lingua franca between
English (or more broadly, Germanic languages) and Latin (or more broadly
Romance languages).
 
A European base is not a crime in itself.  Esperanto with its Chinese
supporters and, if I am right, the currently Chinese President of the =
Esperanto
World Association proves that a European-like language *can* succeed
internationally--at least on a moderate scale.  (Estimates range from =
100,000
- 10 million)
 
Occidental however, by its very users, is claimed to be readable without
former knowledge of the language.  Needless to say, that is a biased =
fact.
Occidental is *partly* readable without prior knowledge by *some* of =
those
who speak its constituting languages.
 
How is that achieved?  By "natural" features, a codeword for =
irregularity, with
words that speakers of the constituting languages know by another form.  =
By
having a non-phonetic alphabet.  By borrowing words with little or no =
change.
 
These are the very facts that make Occidental an unfit IAL.  Occidental =
may
functions well as a Franca Lingua between English and Romance speakers--
that is the very thing Occidentalists keep raving about.  But while =
Europe
may questionably be considered the heart of the world, it is certainly =
NOT
*the world*.
 
Giving English-speakers (yes, Bob, I have a horrible horrible top secret =
agenda
against Anglophones--I am not just using the word to avoid repeating =
English-
speakers over and over again) and Romance-speakers an advantage by =
default
is hardly fair.  Is it now?  If that is our goal, than we might as well =
stay with
English.  Why?  Because Occidental is no better... in fact, seems even =
worse
for it is glorified as an IAL despite its obvious biases.
 
The irregularity and non-phonetic spelling is once again something that =
need
not be part of an IAL and Occidental seems one of the few, if not the =
only one,
that seemed to forget that point.
 
All in all, like I am sure to be accused, I am not advocating that we do =
not learn
an IAL and out of complacency stay with English.  I am however =
advocating that
if Occidental is the best we can do, let's not do it--either stick with =
English or
have people actually learn *each other's languages* as opposed to every =
learn
the language of the country that had the most prosperous economy within =
the last
25-50 years.
 
Any thoughts I missed, Michael?
 
------=_NextPart_000_014B_01BF3BE5.1196AC60
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Occidental, the very name meaning=20
"western(er)".&nbsp; The language that,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>even if its creators were Buddhist holy =
men exiled=20
from Communist China,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>today seems best describable as a =
pidginized lingua=20
franca between</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>English (or more broadly, Germanic =
languages) and=20
Latin (or more broadly</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Romance languages).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A European base is not a crime in =
itself.&nbsp;=20
Esperanto with its Chinese</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>supporters and, if I am right, the =
currently=20
Chinese President of the Esperanto</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>World Association proves that a =
European-like=20
language *can* succeed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>internationally--at least on =
a&nbsp;moderate=20
scale.&nbsp; (Estimates range from 100,000</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- 10 million)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Occidental however, by its very users, =
is claimed=20
to be readable without</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>former knowledge of the language.&nbsp; =
Needless to=20
say, that is a biased fact.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Occidental is *partly* readable without =
prior=20
knowledge by *some* of those</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>who speak its constituting =
languages.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How is that achieved?&nbsp; By =
"natural" features,=20
a codeword for irregularity, with</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>words that speakers of the constituting =
languages=20
know by another form.&nbsp; By</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>having a non-phonetic alphabet.&nbsp; =
By borrowing=20
words with little&nbsp;or no change.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>These are the very facts that make =
Occidental an=20
unfit IAL.&nbsp; Occidental may</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>functions well as a Franca Lingua =
between English=20
and Romance speakers--</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>that is the very thing Occidentalists =
keep raving=20
about.&nbsp; But while Europe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>may questionably be considered the =
heart of the=20
world, it is certainly NOT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>*the world*.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Giving English-speakers (yes, Bob, I =
have a=20
horrible horrible top secret agenda</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>against Anglophones--I am not just =
using the word=20
to avoid repeating English-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>speakers over and over again) and =
Romance-speakers=20
an advantage by default</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is hardly fair.&nbsp; Is it now?&nbsp; =
If that is=20
our goal, than we might as well stay with</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>English.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because =
Occidental is no=20
better... in fact, seems even worse</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for it is glorified as an IAL despite =
its obvious=20
biases.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The irregularity and non-phonetic =
spelling is once=20
again something that need</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not be part of an IAL and Occidental =
seems one of=20
the few, if not the only one,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>that seemed to forget that =
point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All in all, like I am sure to be =
accused, I am not=20
advocating that we do not learn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>an IAL and out of complacency stay with =
 
English.&nbsp; I am however advocating that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>if Occidental is the best we can do, =
let's not do=20
it--either stick with English or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>have people actually learn *each =
other's languages*=20
as opposed to every learn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the language of the country that had =
the most=20
prosperous economy within the last</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>25-50 years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any thoughts I missed,=20
Michael?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
 
------=_NextPart_000_014B_01BF3BE5.1196AC60--

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December 2000, Week 5
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