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AUXLANG  December 1999, Week 1

AUXLANG December 1999, Week 1

Subject:

Is money the cureall?

From:

Kjell Rehnström <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:41:28 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (217 lines)

Is money the cureall?
I shall try to write in English for a change:
Bob wrote:
> A different tact.
>
> Esperanto had a forty year head start on Occidental, and even more on
> Interlingua.
> Today, both these languages have a "known" base of participants than does
> Occidental, or Ido, etc.
>
> Now, all points aside on grammar, vocabulary, ease, simplicity, what will get a
> language going big time?
>
> Money, sweet and simple.
>
There were different times and a single person or a group with necessary
resorces could gather enough money to publish their books. When the first
Esperanto-Swedish dictionary was published any printer could print esperanto
types. If there weren't any they made those types themselves. A professional
could do it. Nawadays it costs money and it is basically more difficult to
print dictionaries than before.
 
As far as I know the Esperantists were the first ones to use the direct method
in teaching Esperanto.
 
Now later on everybody was printing dictionaries and prices went up. It is
more difficult to print such things now than earlier. That is my experience.
So one could perhaps say that Esperantists and Occidentalists were better of
than the average, or that they could work together as groupes. As individuals
many of the pioneers were right out poor, I think.
 
As for money you can get that in two ways: having members paying fees or
selling things. Gode had some interesting ideas. One should try to publish
something and even hiring real journalist to write the things for one and then
pay them and the translators. I don't know how far he carried this idea, but
basically it is good, provided you have the means.
 
> In the beginning large amounts of money were put into Esperanto [in the
> relative
> value of money in that time].
> Ido had money poured into it by a couple of folks too, but not nearly enough to
> make an impact.
> In the last attempt at a language ILa, large amounts of money were dumped in,
> even though that ended.
>
> Now, the two largest user bases for IAL's today, so far as we know, are
> Esperanto
> and ILa.
> Both these languages also have materials available for SALE to help keep the
> costs covered of producing materials.
>
We are doing our best. (See below)
> None of the others, at this point, had/have any funds to operate with. So, the
> hue and cry is, put it all on the net for FREE.
>
> This is utter business practice nonsense done for utopists who have no concept
> of
> paying for promoting something, and hobbyists who don't want to pay for
> anything
> because their very existence means, to them, they are OWED the information
> free.
> Again, this is destructive nonsense.
>
> As long as Esperanto has a financial base through SALE of publications, in
> spite
> of some basic info on the net for free, it will continue to surpass in numbers.
> Take away the funding, give away all their material for free, and within a week
> or less, it will grind down to virtually nothing.
>
> Put funding into Ido for advertising, etc., take its vocabulary off the internet
> and sell the books instead and Ido will surpass Esperanto in 5 years.
>
> The same with Glosa, etc. Esperanto is proof that the language itself doesn't
> matter, just properly promote it and people will try it.
>
> When people in the IAL field finally get off their "welfare mentality" with these
> languages and get to work and PAY for the effort to get the job done with
> M-O-N-E-Y and blood, sweat and tears, then any and all of them can and will
> made
> a dent in the world.
>
> I would rather see Esperanto big and strong and growing, and Interlingua the
> same, and Ido the same, and Glosa, and RLR, and Occidental ALL running at
> the
> same time and being used, [that's about 6-10] IAL's, versus what we see today
> in
> Europe and the rest of the world of a minimum of 120 different languages being
> used. That doesn't even count the hundreds used in the rest of the world. That
> would be a major step in the right direction.
>
> So, how do we get lazy, fat, soft welfare minded hobbyists and crossword
> puzzle
> language solvers off their as--- and get real and go to work?
>
> 1. By ignoring them, and going around them, or,
> 2. having a mass conversion from debatimania merathons, to merathons of
> actual
> production and usage and committment to doing it instead of talking about it, or
> 3. giving up and going home and watching Monday nite football and Thursday
> nite
> basketball, or
> 4. watching the debates on the internet that go no where but are more fun than a
> barrel of monkeys to participate in.
>
> All successful enterprises have only finally succeeded when the entrepreneurs
> put
> their money where their mouth is. I have not once seen that on any list of IAL
> proponents yet. I have seen, "gimme gimme gimme, but don't ask me to
> contribute,
> I am above that materialistic crap."
>
> Somebody keeps talking about getting Bill Gates involved to promote one of the
> IAL's. Why him? *****BECAUSE HE HAS MONEY*****. Again, we know
> the root cause of
> the IAL failures, it is lack of MONEY. Buuuuuutttttt don't ask an IALer to use
> any of his, why that is below their dignity, right?
>
> Now, I can already visualize the emails responding to this post. How about a
> challenge first? Instead of raking me across the coals over this, and wasting
> time on that, take the same amount of time and figure out how to promote your
> own
> language in your area where you live. Then, pure and simple, put up or shut up,
> and take some of YOUR money and put out some flyers and advertisements in
> the
> newspaper or somewhere, and see if you don't get responses. Then, get those
> folks
> to do the same along with you by POOLING your funds and repeating what
> you've
> done. In five years, you will surpass Esperanto by repeating this over and over.
> But, I know this won't be done by anyone. Why? ;-))) "Greed, selfishness,
> afraid
> a friend or someone else will make the money on it instead of a stranger like
> Bill Gates, jealousy, lack of real committment, let the other guy/gal do it
> attitude, etc. etc."
>
> Yes, I know, no one agrees. What's new?
>
> But, in all seriousness, take the high road. We all know it takes money, the
> question is: Can't we just let someone else spend their money [like Bill Gates]
> while we get it for free? A creature that feeds on itself dies. The IAL field, in
> reality is dead, because it feeds on itself.
>
> Don't believe that's the solution. Well, guess again, it isn't ease, simplicity,
> grammar, orient vs occident, it is funding by all participants. Like Paul the
> Apostle said, if they won't work they don't eat. The IAL field isn't laboring, it
> is feeding on itself and dying.
 
In the thirties when they were introducing electrical stoves in Stockholm they
first gave away the stoves. (Change your gas stove fore an electrical one!)
And people did. It was more confortable, cleaner (but heaven knows if they
didn't have to pay more for the electricity, and a gas stove has got some very
big advantages. You can exactly regulate the temperature!
 
If there hadn't been the Internet nobody would have heard about Occidental. It
would have been dead, and I mean really dead, stone dead. We were working on
with Interlingua, but we have been on paper all the time, and the
Occidentalers did not have much money...
 
There is nowhere a single person will count as much as in the realm of
international languages. We crackpots and hobbyists should not be so hard on
ourselves and try to make ourselves into moneyconsuming capitalists. Ideals
count (but it doesn't hurt selling one thing or another now and then).
 
In fact the Internet is the big chance for all the 120 microlanguages. And
sometimes I have a feeling that certain language propagators put them out like
those aluminum things they use to disturb radar from detecting enemy
airplanes. Anyway, Nature is lavish, and it will permit a terrible number of
languages to be created and then disappear.
 
But international langauges have to convey something, be it the fun in using
them or the knowledge that they may transfer.
 
But a friend of mine who is in the PR business more or less, always asks me.
Who needs Interlingua? Why is Interlingua good for him/her?
 
As for Interlingua I already use it. I could very well imagine to write a
letter to someone and include a little vocabulary (un dictionario) inserted
into the text (as I have often done in this list) rather than trying to write
in English or some other language that I don't master. It depends on the
purpose as well. I mean is it reasonable to sit a whole afternoon composing a
letter in French when you can take the corresponding words from a dictionary
and write the whol thing in Interlingua. (If informationa is the most
important thing and not that you want to influence someone. Then it is perhaps
better to hire a good translator, if your own language is not good enough.
 
I think it is very intriguing trying to spread a language without having a
nickle at your disposal for such things!
 
I think there are three points to be addressed:
1. If there is a language that you want to promote, learn it. Learn it as well
as you can. The better you know your langauge, the better you can spread it.
If it is an interlingua type language, try to produce a language that is as
clear as possible. Think of your readers. How much can they understand? Be
clear. Be readable.
 
2. Use it as much as possible. Think about why it may be good for others.
 
3. If you advertize about it. Be very careful to fulfill what you promis.
Imagine that you are the "buyer". Why should anyone learn your language? (Like
being able to answer the question "Why is democracy better than a dictatorship?")
 
Do we organize the language movements in the right way?
Do we need to have big organizations. I have a feeling that some person starts
an organization and is working in it. He has some people around him. Then he
quits. And other persons who are neither interested nor capable have to
continue his work.
 
How do people come in contact with the langauge?
 
Is teaching material good enough?
 
What are local clubs, if any, good for?
 
How much does individuals mean?
 
These are some questions that I don't know the answers to.

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December 2000, Week 5
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November 2000, Week 5
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