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AUXLANG  December 1999, Week 1

AUXLANG December 1999, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Reasons to learnplanlingvoj?(estis:Re:TaketheEsperantoChallenge)

From:

"Robert J. Petry, C.L." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 5 Dec 1999 14:56:00 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (136 lines)

Charles wrote:
 
> Kjell Rehnstr=F6m wrote:
>
> > The stress of -men in Occidental is interesting, because it shows one=
 of the
> > problemes that a schematic language (there are different temperatures=
 in hell)
> > may use and what problems they can pose. As far as I know in all the =
languages
> > where _*mente_ can be used as an ending it is stressed.
>
> The stress in Occidental must be very light, because we want to accomod=
ate
> both French with its word-final and German with its first-syllable patt=
ern.
> Actually it could work either way in OCC, but we take the middle approa=
ch
> and use basically a penult stress.
>
> I think "-men" does often tend to get extra emphasis, raising it to
> a stressed syllable, but to do it all the time seems wrong. The basic
> rule of stressing the vowel before the last consonant of the root
> is a good one, and people will adjust it as seems fit.
>
> Language is just custom (convention) anyway. I find it difficult
> to *not* pick-up the accents and phrases of people I converse with.
 
This last sentence is the key. With Occidental be flexible with the one y=
ou are
talking with. Can speakers from Spain, Cuba and Mexico understand one ano=
ther when
they speak "Spanish" to each other? Can a Bostonian understand someone fr=
om Miss.
when they talk to each other? The Occidental grammar gives the "standard"=
 which
supplies the base from which to operate. Can a "Cockney" understand an Ir=
ishman, or
a Scottsman? Of course, yet they might argue all day over the correct pro=
nunciation.
In fact, these folks daily communicate with each other with ease, while t=
he
cloistered scholars continue to debate whether there is a correct pronunc=
iation of
English, Spanish, French, etc., in order for people to communicate correc=
tly. In the
meantime, the people just keep communicating. And, the scholars keep inve=
nting new
"professional" words to describe their study into word parts, etc. which =
the public
couldn't care less about, and go on communicatin, with all them thar uthe=
r
indeevidooells.
 
Now, a little quote for more in depth discussion about it to keep from ac=
tually
discussing with the language:
 
"3. Li finale -s del plurale e li finales -men e -um es i'naccentuat e ne=
 have
influentie al accentu del ce'teri parol-parte (finales encliltic): doctOr=
, doctOres;
linea, lInea, lIneas; stAtue, stAtues; lExico, lExicos; vocAbul, vocAbule=
s;
hyperbOlic, hyperbOlimen; rapId, rapIdmen; respectAbil, respectAbilmen; s=
Obri,
sObrimen; tal, tAl, tAlmen; Album, cIrcum, herbArium, mAximum, opOssum, p=
lEnum;
Albums, herbAriums, etc. Li finale -men es lil accurtat L 'mente' (=3D in=
 li sense, in
li qualita'), do li adverbies format per -men es quasi composites; ***erg=
o - men
posse reciver un accentu secundari secun li 5-m articul in infra: respect=
AbilmEn,
sObrimEn.***"
 
As one can see, it is possible to get so detailed that one never gets on =
with usage.
 
In reality, the only thing needed to use Occidental is some basic reading=
 material
and the short partial page grammar which fits on a postcard. All the rest=
 is just
for internal curiosity to be satisfied by those who must think they know =
every
little possible detail about grammar, spelling, pronunciation, etc.
 
De Wahl scrit:
 
"Un lingue ne existe por parlar secun frammatica o logical regules, ma in=
versmen,
tis existe por facilisar li parlada ... Un superflui regularita' fa senti=
rse quam
insupportabil in li practic vive . . . Ne li apprension de un lingue es l=
u
essential, ma su usation!!' Talmen Wahl ha egardat in Occidental li leyes=
 del vive,
queles es plu flexibil quam tis del matematica e mecanica. Lass nos egard=
ar que li
te'mpore de apprension de un lingue, e precipue de Occidental, es mult pl=
u curt quam
li durada de su usation....
 
On apprende Occidental ne solmen por posser leer li lingue: por ti scop l=
i studie de
un curt clave suffice. E quam es demonstrat mult milliones de persones co=
mprende
Occidental sin studie anteriori. Ma li adherentes vole ne solmen comprend=
er, ma anc
posser usar li lingue correctmen tam in parlation quam in scrition: e pro=
 to illi
besona ne solmen li curt regules pri li paroles gramatical, ma anc regule=
s pri li
parol-formation e syntax."
 
Thus, with Occidental, it is like a child who goes to school for the firs=
t time.
That child already knows enough of his/her language to use it without eve=
r knowing
the grammar. In school he/she learns the grammar and more vocabulary in h=
is/her own
language. This is how Occidental is learned the easiest. Just like it was=
 when it
first grew. People learned to use it without many rules by just receiving=
 and
reading the Kosmoglott jurnales. After they learned to read it, and write=
 in it, and
speak in it, the grammars were presented.
 
Ma, it ne es important, por li majorite' in ti list, ne have li interess =
in li
lingue por usar it, ma solmen discusser it, ne?
 
Cordialmen,
Bob, x+O~

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