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On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 [log in to unmask] wrote:

>Who of the complainers was actually black?  Or are we

The first one was! I assume by "African-American" that Gray
Wizard means "black" and not "American of Boer extraction".

>just a bunch of white guys whining as were brainwashed
>to do so?

Not at all. I'd complain as hard if someone posted "Das Nazische
Christmass" or something similar. And I have, too.

It's one thing to alter "The Night Before Christmas" _artfully_ into
dialect. It's another to abuse a whole segment of the population with
crass and rude stereotypes. If that's brainwashing, then praise the
lord and pass the ammunition; because without a good dose of "good"
brainwashing we all 260 million of us in the US would be at each
others throats because we _don't_ get along as well as we should. This
kind of thing can only serve to fan the flames, as it obviously has
here.

> >The poem, offensive or not, is an ACCURATE representation >of the
COMIC STEREOTYPE of blacks.  Based on what?  Based >on the fact that
black comedians use it in their stand-up >comedy.  Oh, and the

Well, that's the problem, isn't it. It's based on a stereotype. The
best black comic I've ever heard (Mr. Cosby, of course) doesn't use
stereotypes in any of the dozens of bits I've ever heard. He's funny
as hell and doesn't need to call other men niggers (by the way, you
ought to learn to spell "nigger" right - "Niger" is the name of a
river) or make grotesque stereotypes out of them to make us laugh.

>prospect that only a member of a people >can criticize/joke with
those people is a rather pathetic >invention.  If it is not offensive
in their eyes, why is it >considered offensive at all?  If "niger"
means "guy" (which >it does, at least to most Bronx minorities and a
number of >black artists) why is it offensive coming from whites?  >
>Abrigon, especcially if he is black (which was the impression >Gray
Wizard gave), has done nothing wrong.  >Do we know what free speech
is?  > >And I have to say it is rather pitiful that until Gray Wizard
>expressed his outrage, nobody else seemed to mind.  Very, very

Well, ek-shaggin-scuse me for not reading my mail every two seconds.
I'll tell you one thing, I answered Gray Wizard's mail right after I
read it (which was just after I read the original post).

>genuine, people!  This is the kind of snobbish, arrogant attitude
>that occurs regularly on these lists, and which hightens nobody's
>opinion of anyone here.  > >Something does not become offensive just

Pardon me, but it is _not_ a regular occurance here.

Padraic.

because TV says so.  > >Take notes from black comedians--they seem to
have no hang-ups >about making jokes about whites.  I do not condone
it, but >frankly I do not give a damn.  > >So how many of those
fatally offended happens to be personally >offended as opposed to
having an overactive, visually triggered >conscience?  > >And, on a
final note, the ONLY reason that one could smile/laugh >on the poem:
It is NOT true.  > >That is the point all of you seem to be driving
at, so read it again >and enjoy.  If you're really brain-dead, rewrite
the title to >"A Gangsta Xmas".  >