[log in to unmask] wrote:

>  If it is not offensive in their eyes, why is it
> considered offensive at all?  If "niger" means "guy" (which
> it does, at least to most Bronx minorities and a number of
> black artists) why is it offensive coming from whites?

    For the same reason that "fag" is offensive when used by anyone who
isn't gay. The terms are only acceptable when used by the "inside"
group, who have appropriated the term as a source of pride FOR
THEMSELVES. Anyone "outside" the group who uses it, even if trying to
use it in the same way as those in the group,  only recall,
unintentionally or not, the original use and meaning of the term as

> Abrigon, especcially if he is black (which was the impression
> Gray Wizard gave), has done nothing wrong.
> Do we know what free speech is?

    He's not. As yes, I know what free speech is. However, _I_  also
know what courtesy and respect are, while  you apparently do not. This
list is a RESPECTFUL list, and such posts, while perhaps appropriate on
other lists, are not appropriate here because of the lack of respect it

> And I have to say it is rather pitiful that until Gray Wizard
> expressed his outrage, nobody else seemed to mind.

    Not true. It's merely that Grey Wizard was the first to see the
post, and post on it, while the rest of us waited to see what additional
input/apologies/etc. were posted before we replied. This is part of the
reason for so many replies agreeing with the GW...we replied to the last
post on the topic as it was easier than starting a brand new post and
addressing it, and so on.

> Very, very
> genuine, people!  This is the kind of snobbish, arrogant attitude
> that occurs regularly on these lists, and which hightens nobody's
> opinion of anyone here.

    Snobbish? Where the **** have you been. Having a strong feeling that
I've seen Abrigon's posts elsewhere under a different name, where the
individual made the same cryptic, nonsensical, disconnected posts, and
where the same individual had one strong supporter which no one had ever
heard of, I have to say that you need to get a cerebronavelotomy, so you
can see where you're walking and what you're typing. You obviously have
no clue what the people on this list are like, since I don't think I've
ever, EVER seen snobbish or arrogant anything come out of anyone (and
I've had some pretty major disagreements with poeple over the three
years I've been on this list - The Grey Wizard being one of them).

> Something does not become offensive just because TV says so.

    No, but it certainly does become offensive when someone feels
offended. That's all it takes. One person is enough for it to be
offensive. And we have way more than that here - a majority, I would

> Take notes from black comedians--they seem to have no hang-ups
> about making jokes about whites.  I do not condone it, but
> frankly I do not give a damn.

    To be honest, I am offended by those jokes. They're offensive too.
The only thing that makes it mostly a non issue is that most whites I
know don't watch black comedians because their jokes speak to a culture
different from the white. Besides, in those circumstances, it is
appropriate - you know ahead of time what you are getting in to. Not so
on this list, where we are VERY international (the list memebership here
spans the globe several times) and very respectful of other cultures.

> So how many of those fatally offended happens to be personally
> offended as opposed to having an overactive, visually triggered
> conscience?

    I, for one. I didn't finish the "poem" at all, I found it so

> And, on a final note, the ONLY reason that one could smile/laugh
> on the poem:  It is NOT true.

    Then why post it? Why post something so blatantly offensive (how
bout some stupid German jokes, Mr. Hoensch!?) to a list where such poems
are not only not on topic but also risk offending a large number of
people? It seems to me that Abrigon, and yourself (if these are two
separate people) definitely need to grow a maturity level or two, and do
some serious thinking about posts at the same time.

> That is the point all of you seem to be driving at, so read it again
> and enjoy.  If you're really brain-dead, rewrite the title to
> "A Gangsta Xmas".

    How bout I don't (that's just as stereotypical and offensive) and
instead ignore everything you or abrigon post in the future?

        A gay white guy