At 9:49 pm +0100 21/2/00, Irina Rempt wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Feb 2000, Raymond Brown wrote:
>> The Welsh 'r' is always trilled.  Normally it's an alveoloar (or apical)
>> trill; but some speakers in the north use a uvular trill (yes - a trill,
>> _not_ the modern French uvular approximant).  I guess these speakers must
>> use an aspirated uvular trill for 'rh', tho I confess I've not heard the
>> sound.
>I have; when I was in North Wales trying to learn Welsh I was
>complimented on my mastery of it.

Good - nice to have this confirmed   :)

> They're used to English speakers
>who can't seem to learn [R] or [?] (whatever you spell it as in IPA,
>I write it "[devoiced R]" in the ASCII-IPA representation of
>Valdyan). I happen to have a natural uvular 'r' :-)

So does my elder grandson (6 years old) - a lovely uvular trill. I guess as
he gets older it'll give way to the effete Parisian uvular approximant

In south Wales the apical trill is standard & I can manage the aspirated/
devoiced apical trill quite easily.

Pob hwyl,

A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]