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"Donald J. HARLOW" wrote:

> Je 28 mar 00, je 12:54, maf skribis:
>
>  Chiesulino (lit. "Everybody's woman"( is a _lousy_ term for female sex
> > workers, lau mi, it actually insults _all_ women) (and notice once again
> > that the inherent sexist structure of Eo makes it impossible to insult a
> > man in this same way - and seems ignorant of the flourishing trade of
> > male-prostitution 'malchastulo'? hmmm 'chiesulo'? hmmm very different
> > connotations
>
> Mike, you know better than this, I'm sure.

Don't be sure. _Never_ underestimate the enormity (in the traditional meaning,
thank you) of my ignorance.

>
>
> (1) It may be that some _men_ will consider that "c^iesulino"
> insults _all_ women.

Well it implies that sexual relations = ownership, an idea insulting to many
people.

> However, in case you had failed to notice, the
> closest equivalent English term ("slut") is more commonly used (as
> a pejorative) by women than by men. (*) Apparently most women
> don't consider themselves offended by its use -- at least when
> they're applying the term to somebody else.

My objection is (as CBurd noted) that the connotations of 'chiesulo' (for an
anglophone at least) have _nothing_ to do with sex.
At least partly the structural inequality of the sexes in Eo helps (doesn't
determine, doesn't absolutely enforce, but _helps_) the traditional  female =
erotic  formula that makes so many women's lives more unpleasant than
necessary.

> (2) The distinction between the _connotations_ of "c^iesulino" and
> "c^iesulo" has nothing whatsoever to do with the "inherent sexist
> structure of Eo" or any other facet of linguistic structure, but with
> purely social considerations.

The idea that linguistic structure and "purely social considerations" are
unrelated is common, but it's surprising hearing it from a representative of a
movment, the goal of which is the transformation of the world's linguistic
_and_ social structure.

> Whatever the structure of the
> language used, a lady who spreads her legs for a hundred men is
> going to be looked on with disfavor while a gentleman who has his
> way with a hundred women is going to be at least tacitly respected
> by large segments of society.

What a charming way of expressing it. She spreads her legs and he has _his_
way with her. By the way, does Eo have a word for what a woman does during the
conventional heterosexual sex act? (please don't give the traditional answer
and no, I won't distress the list further by asking for terms for less
conventional sexual acts (you're welcome))

> This apparently has to do with the
> concept of "property" and not with the -IN- suffix...

Well my point is that 'chiesulino' makes use of the woman = property metaphor,
one I would have assumed most Eo speakers wouldn't care to have associated
with.


amike
mike farris