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On Mon, 1 May 2000, DOUGLAS KOLLER wrote:

> From: "Irina Rempt"

> > Niemand herinnert zich de namen van mieren.
> >
> > Or rather less stilted:
> >
> > Niemand weet (nog) hoe mieren heten.

> My Dutch is weak at best (and heavily influenced by fairly weak German), but
> I read the above, latter Dutch sentence to mean "No one knows (anymore) what
> ants are called." (i.e. they don't know that ants are called "ants") while
> the former, via German, is more recognizable (i.e. no one knows [or cares
> {because they're too numerous and drones}] that this ant is called Bob, that
> one is called Estelle, and that one is called Sebastian), and which many of
> the natlang translations seems to follow.

You're right, of course; I realized that when I got it back. I was
very busy and tired at the time (preparing for Easter is four
twenty-hour working days for me, we have a small parish and all the
work falls to half a dozen people). What I took issue with was
"herinnert zich", and I foolishly rewrote the whole sentence instead
of tackling just that, and left out the important reference to
"names".

"Zich herinneren" usually means that you recall something after
having forgotten it, not that you remember it from the moment you've
learned it; so

  "Niemand onthoudt de namen van mieren"

implies that everybody forgets an ant's name right away, never to
recall it of their own accord. That's probably the most precise
meaning.

Whoever is collecting these: this version is the right one.

   Irina

--
           Varsinen an laynynay, saraz no arlet rastynay.
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