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Kuty, Kuty, Kuty :^) :^) :^) (everything in threes today...)
(everything in threes today...) (everything in threes today...)

> >>>He went for the dive with 8 KG of weghits and arround 45
> >>>KG of camera equipment using a normal BC that was not
> >>>working very good.
>
> >First, 45 kg of camera equipment sounds like an AWFUL lot.
>
> Carl, Carl, Carl, this is the Middle East.  If you talked to him for a few
> more minutes it would have been 67 KG and if he would have accepted your
> generous offer for a beer or two it would go up to 100 KG.

Ah yes, I've seen this type of dive reporting before.

> >Typical video setups run around 25 lbs or so.  Even if I
> >added my twin mongo video lights which give me about 500
> >watts of light that would only add about 45 lbs,
>
> And here, we got the right number (although not the exact units ;-)  ).

HAHAHA  - see - 3 HA's following my earlier rule of 3's so I
need to add to more Ha Has to bring it up the correct number,
as well as the 3's - let me know if you understand THAT! :^) :^) :^)

> >But, and this is the key point... WEIGHT - that is - out of
> >water weight, has almost NOTHING to do with bouyancy.  What
> >is needed is the bouyancy of this equipment.
>
> Exactly.  If you read between the lines, what the reporting Egyptian meant
> was that the diver was extremely negative when he went into the water.

Extremely?!  Hmmmm...  I often hear people on lists like this think that
5 or 10 lbs negative is "extremely" negative.  I always suggest
for new divers to "learn" just how much bouyancy they can swim downward
against.  You can do this one of 2 ways.  Invert yourself and start
swimming downward.  Keep Inflating your BC until you can no longer
comfortably maintain your position in the water column.  Then you
can hook up some "lead" to you and see where you're neutral again.
Or, you can see just how much "lead" you can lift off the bottom when
you're neutral.  These two numbers SHOULD be very close.  I know that
personally I can bring up a 30 lbs weight belt from the bottom in
about 25-30' of water.  It is NOT easy, however I could swim against
such a bouyancy different and still perform a useful task.  True,
if your PPO2 is increasing rapidly that could REALLY bring on
O2 tox but the only other choice is to relax during the descent
and work on unclipping the video gear and letting THAT drop.

> >My 70 lbs of equipment is probably about 15 lbs or so
> >negatively bouyant - *definitely* less than 20 lbs negative.
> >I KNOW <SNIP>
> >*IF* I was 20 lbs negative I CAN swim upward against 20 lbs
> >of neg bouyancy.
>
> BUT, this guy had a lot of lead (as reported), the standard exposure
> protection in Dahab is a wet suit which at 20m would compress and would
> lose a lot of its buoyant features.  I can imagine that the guy went in
> with his BC half inflated, and when he started to descend, and felt that he
> was going too fast, he started adding air to his BC.

Nah - 8kg plus 45 lbs of video equipment probably is STILL not a total
is
probably less than 30 lbs of negative bouyancy.  I think that something
could still have been done if he was prepared.  Of course when you think
about it, he was DIW (doing it wrong) - grossly overweighted with NO
redundant bouyancy.  The same type of scenario is what occured a while
back when the triple death occured in Florida of the tech diver wanna be
wearing twin LP steels and a wetsuit (making him grossly overweighted,
loosing bouyancy due to wetsuit compression and having no method of
generating additional bouyancy).

> When you are in the Blue Hole, with no (reasonable) bottom and your BC
> explodes at 20m, and you have a lot of lead that you don't drop because you
> are panicked (or because you were taught that ditchable lead is unnecessary
> according to some new trends) and you have a lot of photography equipment
> which is very negatively buoyant, and didn't have quick release clips (as
> reported) - it's an express-way to hell.

Personally I do not wear ditchable lead, however, that is a choice that
I have made after years of experience.  To me, wearing ditchable lead
and loosing that is a much higher probability than the scenario you
described above and the consequences of loosing lead at the end of a
dive
with significant deco doesn't appeal to me.

Note, I typically do not strap my video to me until I am in the water
and
comfortable.  The two exceptions to this are the "mongo" video light
batteries
that I sometime wear clipped off on my right and left side in the
position
that stage bottles would be clipped off to.  The batteries in these
suckers
are 18 lbs by themselves!

Carl