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* daniel andreasson <[log in to unmask]> [001015 17:28]:
> kaleissin the storyteller skrifi:
>
> > > >     http://www.unil.ch/ling/phonetique/api-eng.html
>
> I got my soundcard working. For some strange reason I can listen
> to cd:s, mp3:s and ra-files, but not au and wav-files. Though I think
> I can now. ... No I can't. It says:
>
> "Cannot play back the audio stream: no audio hardware is available,
> or the hardware is not responding."
>
> which is weird, since I obviously can listen to other kinds of
> soundfiles. Any suggestions what to do?

Might be the program used that is the problem. I can send you other
versions of the sounds (different subtype of .wav) as I after much
work finally found a program that were capable of converting them.
(An Amiga, no less)

> > > Ok. So {o} sounds something like {wi} in "twin"? And would be
> > > spelled "ton" in truven?
>
> > A+. {o} is of course different from {u}.
>
> Yep. For some reason I can't get into my head that {o} is /u/ and
> {u} is /}/. You'd think I could, since I'm Swedish. :)

Hehe yeah. The entire line of closed vowels is neat though, i y u o
in truven (/i/ /y/ /}/ /u/). Very "top-heavy" language :) So far,
all daughter- and sister-languages I've found have at least collapsed
the y with u or i.

The following diphthongs exist in the vocab I have today, sorted by
frequency: a e u a y y y y u u o a o o o i i e a

> > > And the {y} of {y} isn't really a /j/ but rather something in
> > > between /j/ and /w/?
>
> > Yep. {i} and {y} are "of course" different ;)
>
> Must be hard to tell the difference in normal speech though. Not that
> it's necessary I guess. Context is everything.

That pair is actually quite easy... {o} and {o}{ygrave} would be
rather worse :) In an earlier incarnation, those were written {o}
and {y}. Nowadays they're the same, pronounced as the latter,
written as the former. Same for {u} and former {y}.

> > > Summary so far: The only thing I'm having problems with is the
> > > pronunciation of /L/ and /H/.
>
> > Don't fuss over 'em; if the {i} of {a} is the closest to /j/, the {i}
> > of {} is somewhere between /j/ and /w/ or if you like a rounded /j/.
> > The difference between {a} and {a} is that {} is closest to /w/
> > while {} is somewhere between /j/ and /w/, but closer to /w/ than the
> > {} of {}. Btw, /H/ is in the French word _lui_ /lHi/ or something
> > like that.
>
> AHA! _Now_ I got it! Why didn't you say so in the first place? :)

Ah goody you mean that explanation works? Maybe I can finally update
the sounds-page then :)

> > Old form of owl was {ooo}, now it's {ou'o}
>
> Doesn't get more onomatopoetic than that, does it? :)
>
> Is there some kind of tonal / intonational difference between the vowels?
> Like: /u_L.u_H.u_L/ ?

High-low-low I guess, or global fall if ya *really* want to be
onomatopoetic :)

> > > > An aooy is probably some form of bird.
>
> > > Yikes. Ok. Here's a try:
> > >
> > > /AL.wA.wu.jo.we:.y/ or perhaps:  AL.wAou.jo.we:.y/
>
> > Roughly: /ALwA.uwi.u_Lu_H:\.e:.y/
>
> Hmm. My try wasn't that close. So there's a tetraphthong in
> the beginning? That was somewhat hard to see. I petty those
> little truven (what _is_ the adjective again?) children trying
> to learn how to read and write at school. Ouch.

Tip: count number of vowels with graves and acutes that are next
to eachother, add 1 (for the diacriticless vowel in front), and
hey presto!

> > > Okej. How 'bout: {ajwawjowy}? ;)
>
> > {j} is /Z/ (voiced post-alveolar fricative).
>
> Okay. Change {j} to {zh} then... ;)

Haven't got a single digraph yet and I'd like to keep it that way. If
{'}, which marks aspiration for consonants and breathiness for vowels
(which both are phonemic at least in the onset of a syllable), is
replaced with {h} then no digraphs with {h} will be possible.

> > [..] {,} is /j/ and I'd like to replace that one too.

Actually it marks palatalization or a hyper-short closed front vowel
whose rounding depends on it's neighbors. I've thought of replacing it
with {} mu, but I've also thought of using that one for nasals that
take their point of articulation from their neighbors.

> > (X-)SAMPA to IPA converter:
> > http://odur.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg/sampa/input.html
>
> That's neat. Though it didn't understand "/" and "." though.

Nor tie bars, which I need...

> > Samples of some dialects of Norwegian, both in IPA, X-SAMPA and sound:
> > http://benoni.hf.ntnu.no/dialektprover/indexe.html (From my uni., I
> > know several of the speakers.)
>
> mp3's I can listen to. ... But not that one apparently. Arrghs!
> What's up with my computer?!?!?

Weird.


t.