> From:    Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: New Lang: Igassik
> A more interesting feature (to me) is that it will have vowel
> deletion in alternate syllables; so for ex. its name can appear as either
> /prevli/ or /pervil/, presumably underlying {perevili}.  That's as far as
> I've gotten........

Atlantic (the name I've decided on for the second, western Hadwan
language){1} has this.  Only underlying {u} /U/ doesn't disappear, it
weakens to {o} /o/ in unstressed syllables and up to {u} /u/ in stressed

It goes, say, from Hadwan {vinjius} [vIn.'dZi.jUs] "prisoner" to Atlantic
*{vnjigos/vnzhigos} [vn=.'Zi.Gos].  (And much later, {výzhaigo}, should the
root manage to survive that long...)

> From:    Nik Taylor <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: IPA (Was: Re: Hello, I'm new too)
> John Cowan wrote:
> > For example,
> > [j] represents both the approximant of English "yes" and the fricative
> > of (some kinds of) Spanish "yo", because no known language makes a
> > distinction between these sounds.
> Actually, those are different characters.  The approximate is [j], while
> the fricative is a j with a "curly tail" (see
>, represented in SAMPA by
> [J\] (I think that's the symbol)

[j\], I think.

> From:    Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: CHAT: "Mister"  (WAS:    Re: New Lang: Igassik)
> I don't think there's that much difference here.  I don't think grade or
> high-school students would DREAM of using first names with an instructor,
> likely this is just a carry-over into college, where there is still a
> tendency for students to have (grudging) respect for their teachers, even
> lowly TAs :-).....Probably by senior year, and certainly in graduate
> courses, its all first names, except maybe with very senior faculty.  Even
> so, as I recall at Michigan, Pike's students called him Ken, but William
> Gedney (in Thai linguistics, and possibly even older than Pike) was NEVER
> Bill, but Prof. or Mr.
> So it depends.....

It has a lot to do with levels, at least at my university.  The teachers in
the school of art, very informal, I think all go by first names.  (Although
the last name may sometimes be used when talking _about_ them.)  I don't
know if anyone's used the construction *"Mr. Gray" (I _think_ that's his
last name?) for said teacher, only "Zach".  In all the other classes I know
of this'd be unheard of, usually it's "Mr. so-and-so" (or the appropriate
woman's title).  I don't think I hear "professor" used much, but I don't
think it would be out of place...

> From:    Dan Sulani <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Novel, Novella (was Re:      Re: I'm new!)
>     "Novella", over here, is currently associated with the
> endless Spanish-language soap operas, called "tele-novellas",
>  which we're now getting on our TVs. ( My son thinks it's a great
> way to learn Spanish, although I sometimes wonder what kind of
> a vocabulary he's picking up! ;-)  )

"Novelas" are also what my (Cuban) grandmother refers to her (American) soap
operas as.

> From:    Vasiliy Chernov <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Montreiano Orthography
> >Well, i was trying to come up with a solution that wasnt like the other
> >romance langs. Christophe suggested i could turn /E/ and /O/ to /e:/ and
> >/o:/. So, would they instead really be the diphthongs you suggested?
> My point was that a system with five short vowels and only two long ones
> doesn't look especially natural - while I'm sure a natlang precedent
> can be found for that, too... ;)

The ancient Greek alphabet did it (although the ancient Greek language did

> From:    Mangiat <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: R:      Re: I'm new!
> > In Swedish, a short story is called 'novell' and a novel is
> > called "roman". Confusing, isn't it? :)
> Same in Italian ('novella' and 'romanzo'). It's English which caused the
> false friend, IMO, since in German they have 'Roman' for novel (ok, ok,
> have Kurzgeschichte as well, but that's an English calque)

English has 'roman' in 'bildungsroman' "coming of age story".
(In German apparently that's "Entwicklungsroman", ...)

> From:    Andrew Chaney <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: HTML advice (was: Re: Hello, I'm new too)
> > Or give it margins. To cater for different browsers with different
> > tastes, you need both the <marginwidth> and <leftmargin> attributes.
> > which do the same thing:
> >
> > <body marginwidth="50" leftmargin="50">
> marginwidth and leftmargin are are not part of the HTML 4.0 standard.
> check out:
> I try to stick to the standards in my HTML code. That way,
> theoretically, my HTML should look the same on any browser that
> also respects the HTML 4.0 standard.

(O that such an animal existed!  Actually I pine more for a fully
CSS-compliant browser, but if people like Microsoft insist on adding one
measly feature at a time, "in *this* version we've added _drop caps_, aren't
we sensational?"...  Yeah, I know, Mozilla, but it's quirky on my computer.)

> From:    jesse stephen bangs <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: IPA (Was: Re: Hello, I'm new too)
> > Remember that IPA is not meant to represent every *possible*
> > but only every *necessary* distinction in existent languages.  For
> > [j] represents both the approximant of English "yes" and the fricative
> > of (some kinds of) Spanish "yo", because no known language makes a
> > distinction between these sounds.  If one were found, a new symbol would
> > be introduced into IPA.
> Huh?  I've always thought that the curly-tailed [z] was the correct IPA
> symbol for the Spanish sound.  It's a voiced palatal fricative, just
> barely different from the voiced palatal approximant [j].  I care because
> my conlang has a phonemic difference between them!  Any more info on this?

Curly-tailed z is an alveopalatal fricative.  Curly-tailed j (sampa [j\]) is
a palatal fricative, the sound in [my] Spanish.  [j] is the lazy way of
representing [j\] in Spanish transcriptions just as [r] is for [r\](?) in
English ones.  Since there's not a difference within the language, shortcuts
can be taken.

> From:    "H. S. Teoh" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: IPA griefs
> [snip]
> > IPA doesn't have separate symbols for dental and alveolar /t/--a major
> > flaw, IMO.
> Really? The IPA transcription page (the one that lists four ASCII
> transcriptions -- sorry, don't have the URL handy) includes separate
> symbols for dental and alveolar /t/ -- though the dental isn't really a
> separate symbol, but just /t/ with a dental diacritic (Kirsch = /t[/).

The "bridge below" diacritic (like [ turned with its points down) indicates
dentalization.  It's not a feature of the /t/ symbol itself.

> From:    Adrian Morgan <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: CHAT: "Mister"  (WAS: Re: New Lang: Igassik)
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, John Cowan wrote:
> > "Professor". There are rather more professors in North American
> > colleges and universities than elsewhere (and a multiplicity of deans
> > to boot), but even so, not everyone who teaches bears that title
> > legitimately.
> I know that 'professor' in American English doesn't mean 'the head of a
> university department' which is the meaning elsewhere ... and I know that
> 'college' is used to mean what I would call 'university' ... and I even
> know - because my American friends have told me - that American
> universities have special names for student year levels instead of just
> 'first year', 'second year', 'third year' as it is here ...
> ... but this I don't know. What exactly is a dean? We don't have them.

At my school anyway deans are the adults in charge of the dormitories.
"Dean" also appears to mean the head of one of the schools of the
university, like your "professor".

> From:    Adrian Morgan <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: IPA griefs
> > In hackish slang, we have "adger" (to wreck something as a result
> > of an elementary mistake), which is a minimal pair with "azure".
> I've never heard either of those words pronounced (I've never heard of
> 'adger' and I've only seen 'azure' in print), but I've always assumed the
> latter to be stressed on the second syllable?

So also have I assumed, but my dictionary disagrees with me.

> From:    Andrew Chaney <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: CHAT: "Mister"  (WAS: Re: New Lang: Igassik)
> > and I know that
> > 'college' is used to mean what I would call 'university' ...
> A university is divided into several colleges (The College of Engineering,
> The College of Math, C of Liberal Arts, C of the Arts, &c).  Colleges are
> then further subdivided into Departments (The Department of Mechanical
> The Dept. of Civil Eng., The Dept. of Electrical Eng., &c).

A college is also an institution that only serves undergraduate and not
postgraduate degrees.  My college became a university while I was here.
Most of the college's major "departments" were upgraded to the university's
"schools" (art department -> School of Visual Arts and Design)


{1} The tree of Hadwan type languages looks something like this:

                       Proto-Hadwan (middle east/caucasus, centuries BC)
               |                              |
            Hadwan (Greece, early AD)     [? "eastern"]  (Tibet, China,
      |                                       |
(Atlantic) (Iberia, Medit., middle ages)    [? "northern"] (Eastern Europe)
(Modern Atlantic) (same, contemporary)
[? "future"]  (Mars, 500+ years from now)
[? "creole"]  (same, Hadwan-English creole)

(parentheses) are languages that have some work on them done
[brackets] are languages that I know "must" be there, but have no
information on (yet).