On Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:29:21 -0500 Vasiliy Chernov <[log in to unmask]> writes: > On Sat, 4 Nov 2000 22:43:14 -0600, Danny Wier <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >glottal: h\ h ? (h\ = IPA h curved top, the voiced [h]) > >pharyngeal: ?- h- ?\ (?\ = reversed ?, the voiced [h-]) > >("emphatic") > > > >One can also use the terms "tense" and "lax"; a lot easier to say > than > >"geminate" and "ungeminate". > <...> > >Any natlang examples of this? > > Starostin in his Preface to A Comparative Dictionary of North > Caucasian Languages ( http://starling.rinet.ru/texts/texts.htm ) > mentions some similar systems (Lak? Lezghian? I forget :( ). > Plus reconstructed evolution for 6,000 years or so. Well I got the list of Proto-North Caucasian from that same site, and have read the texts. Starostin's work is pretty impressive. (I might've mentioned it, but I based the vocabulary of Q on PNC, taking data from that same website). The North Caucasian languages combine tense/lax distinctions with glottalized/voiceless/voiced, where Korean has tense and lax unvoiced consonants along with voiced ([which are devoiced to "plain" voiceless initially and finally). Six versus three. I meant to ask "any natlang examples of this besides North Caucasian", and I have to imagine there are languages of North America (Salishan anyone?) with this complexity of consonants. I read a book which gave the phonemes of reconstructed Proto-Salishan, and it resembled the versions of Nostratic and North Caucasian I've seen. (And Proto-Nilo-Saharan has a lot of consonants, including a whole set of implosive voiced stops.) DaW.