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At 10:04 pm -0400 11/6/01, Mia Soderquist wrote:
>daniel andreasson wrote:
>>
>> This makes for a nice translation exercise.
>>
>>    "Behold! From Hell's dark sisterhood am I,
>>     and War and Death are in my hand!"
>>
>
>In ea-luna:
>ma lape! numu peli-li-lamukae-lawa la, wa ata kida wa lu ie
>la-gewa!
>
[snip]
>
>
>*1 The underworld of ea-diwe. It's not particularly like
>Hell, but it is the closest thing I've got for you.
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At 8:49 pm -0400 11/6/01, Steg Belsky wrote:
>Doing that translation exercise with the word "Hell" in it got me
>thinking about what would be the closest Rokbeigalmki equivalent to such
>a concept, since their Afterlife belief is nothing like it.
>
>As i said when i translated it:
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At 1:47 am -0400 11/6/01, Matt M. wrote:
>> "Behold!  From Hell's dark sisterhood am I, and War and Death are in my
>hand!"
>
>This makes no sense in Shrislia culture, but it's still a cool sentence, so
[snip]
>
>Inpernos: No concept for "hell". Also no dental fricatives. -s = genitive.

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Hmm - I may be wrong, but methinks an assumption is being made that "Hell"
in this context has the meanings associate with it in Judaeo-Christian
culture.  But if you recall David's original email the words are most
certainly pre-Christian and written by someone who probably had little or
no knowledge of Judaism.  I quote:

At 3:15 am -0400 10/6/01, David Peterson wrote:
>    So, I was reading Vergil's Aeneid today and there was this phrase that
>really struck me, for some reason.  It's in the middle of the seventh book:
>
>"Behold!  From Hell's dark sisterhood am I, and War and Death are in my hand!"

The words are part of a reply that the Fury, Allecto, makes to Turnus,
Prince of the Rutili:
"respice ad haec: adsum dirarum ab sede sororum,
 bella manu letumque gero."

The second line is one half-lines found in the Aeneid, over which scholars
to argue - but that's another matter  :)

A literal translation:
respice = look again [singular imperative]
ad haec = towards these things/ at these things [haec - neuter plural]

adsum = I am here
ab sede = from the abode
dirarum....sororum = of the fearsome sisters [i.e. the Furies; her sisters
were Megaera and Tisiphone]

gero = I bear/ I carry
bella = wars [accusative plural]
letum-que = and death [letum - pre-classical, used in Classical Latin only
in poetry = death; -que - enclitic = and]
manu = in (my) hand [ablative singular].

"Look again at these things! I am here from the abode of the fearsome
sisters; I bear wars and death in my hand".

What are "these things"?

Just before she speaks, Turnus has, thinking he is addressing a priestess &
not the Fury herself, mocked her prophecy, saying she's old & senile and
tells her to go back to her temple and images and leave the making of war
to _men_ (uiri).  At his insolent, ageist & sexist reply, Allecto fairly
explodes - Vergil says: exarsit in iras - she flared up into rages.  Her
hair hissed & two snakes rear up on her head; her eyes roll with flames

haec: her flaming eyes, the snakes in her hair, her whole fearsome and
enraged appearance.

In fact _haec_ is pretty emphatic here, bearing the accented beat of the
'foot' and coming immediately before the caesura (slight pause in the
line).  One can imagine her fairly shout the monosyllable and pointing to
her face & hair as the dismayed & terrified young prince looked on.

C.D. Lewis translates the lines:
"Look at me, then! I am come from the place where the Furies are.
 War and death I bear in this hand."

Oh yes, in case you're not familar with them, the three Furies were
goodesses of vengeance, i.e. avenging spirits.  Not being one should upset!

Ray.


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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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